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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 11:29 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
Heavs wrote:
billc3 wrote:
WOW wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
“I’m getting frustrated that Charlie Curnow is getting bracketed with Harry McKay. The two of those guys (against the Bulldogs) were moved further from goal to try and open up and give other players opportunity,” King said on Fox Footy.

“Charlie is not the problem, so don’t move Charlie and stop messing around with Charlie’s magnet. He was targeted four times inside 50 on the weekend, he’s the second-best target in the competition.

“I just don’t understand why you would move him further away from goal when he’s the only reason you score.

“If you look at the Harry debate, it’s a different one altogether, but to move Charlie further from goal, you will lose twice. You don’t get that productivity inside forward 50 and genuine panic among back sixes you should get when you’ve got a player of that calibre.

“Other teams would say (to Curnow): ‘Go, roam up the field. We’ll just stay here, Harry is not kicking goals anyway, so are you going to kick it to him? And what, get another couple of points?’”


So true

This idea of Curnow roaming around the ground is ridiculous

A good coach would use these two very good key forwards productively closer to goals. Curnow pinch hitting at times through the middle is a better option to introduce versatility to the side.

Both players should in the team to be your prime goal kickers
Sorry WOW and David King.... But I disagree....
Charlie roaming up the ground is EXACTLY what has to happen (throughout the game)

1. Good luck to the KPD chasing, so it creates a free player
2. Let Charlie take the ball around the 50-55 m area... Greater space in this area, no second defender dropping across the front and see point 1.above
3. Charlie can kick it from there.... The defence flood will get a good view of it sailing over their head...
4.Even if Charlie misses from there, the defence starts second guessing what they should do... See point 1 and 2..
5. When the defence start trying to go with him, playing on opens up the forward 50...thus passing to Harry, Owies, Motlop, Someone becomes an option... Charlie is just about our best kick
6. See point 1 to 6 and decide what you are doing if you are defending.... Good luck

Shall I go on...



That's what pi$$ed me off with the Saints game... All they can do is hold defence and we played in a way which allowed them to remain that way...



Go Blues


Are you apologising to David King yesterday, or David King from three weeks ago who explicitly said that we need to separate the two key forwards and have Charlie playing much higher up the ground. The bloke can't remember what he ate for breakfast.


King is a bit like that.

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 12:34 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:44 am
Posts: 539
Paddycripps wrote:
Game plan (ball movement) biggest problem easily. That is on the coach and his team.

Stats don't lie.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/927553/a-tr ... -the-blues


Bile E. Beveridge, the New Age of Stupid footy guru the AFL picked up on the cheap from some suburban dole office, is now contributing his last remaining brain cells to solving the Carlton Enigma. Punters may remember his recent plunge to the bottom of the sleaze barrel, when together with Klick Cornes, he released - on the AFL's flagship internet face - an exciting video reveal of Luke Shuey picking his nose in the West Coast coaches box. It is no surprise that Chump Data predicted that the chances of Klick being Riley's partner in this dive to the bottom as 100%.

However, in defence of Riley, it must be said that these stats-based articles are a godsend to those, and there are many of them, who know knob-all about football.

And I am one of them. I never realised until I read this article, that Carlton always kicked out to the boundary (sometimes past it), and IF we won the ball, we would creep around the boundary (stopping occasionally for a cigarette or a friendly exchange with one of the opposition). Sometimes we would attempt to confuse the opposition by kicking backwards (although the opposition mainly ignored this tactic and kept running, now unhindered, to our forward line). When, or if, within cooee of the forward 50, we would bomb indiscriminately to the crowd that had gathered there, hoping that one of our key forwards could mark it and kick the ball somewhere in the direction of the goalsticks, using, alternatively, straight kick (rarely), round-the-corner, dribbler, banana kick, combination round-the-corner-dribbler, mostly using our non-preferred foot (which for some players is both their left and their right foot).

I also never realised that if we ran and moved the ball with more speed, kicked accurately, used the corridor occasionally and kicked to some of our other forwards, we would have a better chance of winning.

Thanks Bile E. Looking forward to your next footy video showing, in a private moment, Pumpkin Head pulling his finger out of his backside and sticking it in Klick's ear. Or thereabouts...


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 3:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:04 pm
Posts: 48542
Location: Prison Island
:lol:

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Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2023 8:00 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 4623
Heavs wrote:
billc3 wrote:
WOW wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
“I’m getting frustrated that Charlie Curnow is getting bracketed with Harry McKay. The two of those guys (against the Bulldogs) were moved further from goal to try and open up and give other players opportunity,” King said on Fox Footy.

“Charlie is not the problem, so don’t move Charlie and stop messing around with Charlie’s magnet. He was targeted four times inside 50 on the weekend, he’s the second-best target in the competition.

“I just don’t understand why you would move him further away from goal when he’s the only reason you score.

“If you look at the Harry debate, it’s a different one altogether, but to move Charlie further from goal, you will lose twice. You don’t get that productivity inside forward 50 and genuine panic among back sixes you should get when you’ve got a player of that calibre.

“Other teams would say (to Curnow): ‘Go, roam up the field. We’ll just stay here, Harry is not kicking goals anyway, so are you going to kick it to him? And what, get another couple of points?’”


So true

This idea of Curnow roaming around the ground is ridiculous

A good coach would use these two very good key forwards productively closer to goals. Curnow pinch hitting at times through the middle is a better option to introduce versatility to the side.

Both players should in the team to be your prime goal kickers
Sorry WOW and David King.... But I disagree....
Charlie roaming up the ground is EXACTLY what has to happen (throughout the game)

1. Good luck to the KPD chasing, so it creates a free player
2. Let Charlie take the ball around the 50-55 m area... Greater space in this area, no second defender dropping across the front and see point 1.above
3. Charlie can kick it from there.... The defence flood will get a good view of it sailing over their head...
4.Even if Charlie misses from there, the defence starts second guessing what they should do... See point 1 and 2..
5. When the defence start trying to go with him, playing on opens up the forward 50...thus passing to Harry, Owies, Motlop, Someone becomes an option... Charlie is just about our best kick
6. See point 1 to 6 and decide what you are doing if you are defending.... Good luck

Shall I go on...



That's what pi$$ed me off with the Saints game... All they can do is hold defence and we played in a way which allowed them to remain that way...



Go Blues


Are you apologising to David King yesterday, or David King from three weeks ago who explicitly said that we need to separate the two key forwards and have Charlie playing much higher up the ground. The bloke can't remember what he ate for breakfast.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't watch the footy shows , but saw that post somewhere here....

Everytime I hear a commentator saying something that is clearly not happening, i want to smash TV, THUS i don't watch them... I'm not made of TVs you know!

TC is my only guilty pleasure... Thanks All!!

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 11:40 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
The Age (Nial)...

"None of this is to imply that criticism hasn’t been justified, or that the Blues don’t have issues with personnel, game style or cohesion".


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 12:17 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm
Posts: 2700
How quickly everyone forgets.
Why is the gamestyle last year so good and this year no good?
Why did we have the personnel last year but not this year? Who has changed?
Only value point raised is cohesion which I believe has more to do with personnel consistency than anything else
No one mentioned skills especially kicking for goal which if we were better we would have won last Saturday.


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 12:45 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
Posts: 1495
carntheblues wrote:
How quickly everyone forgets.
Why is the gamestyle last year so good and this year no good?
Why did we have the personnel last year but not this year? Who has changed?
Only value point raised is cohesion which I believe has more to do with personnel consistency than anything else
No one mentioned skills especially kicking for goal which if we were better we would have won last Saturday.


Agree


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 1:05 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
carntheblues wrote:
How quickly everyone forgets.
Why is the gamestyle last year so good and this year no good?
Why did we have the personnel last year but not this year? Who has changed?
Only value point raised is cohesion which I believe has more to do with personnel consistency than anything else
No one mentioned skills especially kicking for goal which if we were better we would have won last Saturday.


I agree we should have won last week but you can't compare to last season as a whole. Our game style changed markedly from the first part of the season to the second half. Early we had a field day putting players out the front of stoppages with looping handballs. Similar to Melbourne. Opposition teams soon worked that out once we had some success, and expectedly ran half backs in off the back of the square cutting it off. We had our half forwards dropping off but the opposition defenders ignored them. Hence our main strength was reduced. Look at the goals our mids kicked last year compared to this.

So almost all teams are doing the same now as an offensive move and take the risk of leaving a half forward on his own. Players like Daicos and Sheezel are making a career out of it. Half backs who don't consider picking up an opponent.

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 3:59 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
carntheblues wrote:
How quickly everyone forgets.
Why is the gamestyle last year so good and this year no good?
Why did we have the personnel last year but not this year? Who has changed?
Only value point raised is cohesion which I believe has more to do with personnel consistency than anything else
No one mentioned skills especially kicking for goal which if we were better we would have won last Saturday.


Ah now now we didn't win, there is no such thing as shoulda coulda woulda won, we didn't win and that is all there is to it, we weren't good enough.

My personal view is the players are panicking now and that is affecting their execution.

I will concede we have played some good teams but tough luck, I mean this is a results driven competition. We have simply been short of what was needed.

We play some inferior (I think) sides in the second half of the year so we will get some wins but at the end of the day the coach has not been able to respond to opposition teams taking away his centre square forward handball masterstroke that gave us 8 wins from 10 games early last year.

Do we have a lot of quick players that could help move the ball quicker? No, but I have always been of the view that if you have players who handle and execute the ball well then you look quick. I mean Diesel, Ratts and Fraser Brown weren't quick but by jingoes they made the game move fast.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:19 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Sack him now

Why waste time?

Start training the players in a new game plan now

One that works


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:20 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1845
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Let’s be innovative

Terminate some contracts


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:24 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:58 pm
Posts: 4299
Paddycripps wrote:
Sack him now

Why waste time?

Start training the players in a new game plan now

One that works


If we do that, who replaces him?


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:36 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9628
Location: Australia
Paddycripps wrote:
Sack him now

Why waste time?

Start training the players in a new game plan now

One that works


…and how has that worked anytime in the last 20 years?

How about we do something different and stick with a coach for six years?


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:37 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9628
Location: Australia
How about we give Voss the opportunity to change the game plan over the next few years?


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:42 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
sinbagger wrote:
How about we give Voss the opportunity to change the game plan over the next few years?


Totally get that
Stability
But I just don't think the guy has a clue about game styles
His tactical IQ is low
Personal view


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:49 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:20 pm
Posts: 1806
He just has to be braver. Ask the boys to take the
game on. Move the magnets around.
Take Hollands off. Move Ed to Sidebottom.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 4:49 pm 
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Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 9:02 pm
Posts: 13192
Location: Melbourne
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Sack him now

Why waste time?

Start training the players in a new game plan now

One that works


…and how has that worked anytime in the last 20 years?

How about we do something different and stick with a coach for six years?


This is my thought. We've sacked enough coaches, mostly prematurely, over the last 10-20 years. Why would this be any different? We'd have the usual short revival then fall away, again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:24 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
Even when we get on top of the contest we can't kick goals such is the hapless game plan

How's the stat they read out
Something about Coll 11 marks I50 spread across 8 players vs Carlton 3 marks across 2 players

That is all you need to know why our game style sucks the big one so bad
So predictable
It's a joke


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
missnaut wrote:
sinbagger wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
Sack him now

Why waste time?

Start training the players in a new game plan now

One that works


…and how has that worked anytime in the last 20 years?

How about we do something different and stick with a coach for six years?


This is my thought. We've sacked enough coaches, mostly prematurely, over the last 10-20 years. Why would this be any different? We'd have the usual short revival then fall away, again.


Fish rots at the head
The primary fault rests with the board who keep appointing shit coaches


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:29 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:37 pm
Posts: 19228
Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
Very poor use of Kennedy again. Doesn't play him enough on ball.

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