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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:56 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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SurreyBlue wrote:
PLOWMAN ... rock solid again tonight!!


That's 3 very good games in a row he has been fantastic.


The midfield group did a great job defensively to take off some pressure off our backmen. Their best effort thus far in 2020...imo

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:57 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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TDK does amazing things to our system.

Sign him up on a 5 year contract.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:26 am
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SOS's vision is coming to the fore.

I reckon he paid the price for saving us being saddled up with Brandon Ellis for 5 years...

Hope the new front office knows how to put the cherry on top.

Cb


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 452
Location: next to you in the outer
Coach B wrote:
SOS's vision is coming to the fore.

I reckon he paid the price for saving us being saddled up with Brandon Ellis for 5 years...

Hope the new front office knows how to put the cherry on top.

Cb



I agree don’t rate him at all. Just a solid contributor. Newnes has him covered for very little cost.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:01 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
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Coach B wrote:
SOS's vision is coming to the fore.

I reckon he paid the price for saving us being saddled up with Brandon Ellis for 5 years...

Hope the new front office knows how to put the cherry on top.


IMHO, he paid the price for selecting Ben Silvagni and his school mate onto the main list. Neither were close to AFL standard.
Ben has potential but he was a rookie selection at best. Once you put personal benefit ahead of objectivity, you cant be trusted to make those decisions again.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:51 pm
Posts: 546
plowman kicked the ball to a carlton forward thats a first


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:47 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Not signing Ellis was a no-brainer, there are plenty of players at Richmond who are merely OK players thriving in an extremely effective system. Always gotta be wary of how their skills will fit in a new system. And sometimes even the right skill set doesn't guarantee success if the mental side is off (GIBBS, Yarran...)


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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jamespul65 wrote:
plowman kicked the ball to a carlton forward thats a first


You keep knocking him every week and he keeps playing excellent footy. He's not the one who looks foolish.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:06 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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Sos had in his mind the plan to finish off the build.

I am concerned that the new team might pull the wrong reign and not get us the missing pieces required to win it all.

Don't forget Sos' was building for our next premiership, not just to make the 8. Its a big difference.

That's why I am so concerned about the Brandon Ellis saga, because 1 bad deal like that is enough to leave us without the salary cap to get the players we need to win it all.

I'm not bothered by the recruiting if his sons that should have been done with Chinese walls and a board sign off, also the salary cap taken by low picks doesn't hurt us.

Cb


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:14 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24723
Location: Bondi Beach
GreatEx wrote:
Not signing Ellis was a no-brainer, there are plenty of players at Richmond who are merely OK players thriving in an extremely effective system. Always gotta be wary of how their skills will fit in a new system. And sometimes even the right skill set doesn't guarantee success if the mental side is off (GIBBS, Yarran...)


Really good point GE.

I had an eye on Ellis ... didn't see much

13 possessions in nearly 90% game time. He did lay 7 tackles

Not worth $600K, nor $500K....played like a $350K player.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17959
Coach B wrote:
Sos had in his mind the plan to finish off the build.

I am concerned that the new team might pull the wrong reign and not get us the missing pieces required to win it all.

Don't forget Sos' was building for our next premiership, not just to make the 8. Its a big difference.

That's why I am so concerned about the Brandon Ellis saga, because 1 bad deal like that is enough to leave us without the salary cap to get the players we need to win it all.

I'm not bothered by the recruiting if his sons that should have been done with Chinese walls and a board sign off, also the salary cap taken by low picks doesn't hurt us.

Cb


It's debatable IMHO. SOS has secured some very good KPP but he's used 6 top 20 draft picks on midfielders and not one of them are playing in our centre square at the moment. (Excluding Kemp) Several cant get a game. Not to mention our inability to select a small forward.
Perhaps SOS has selected the talls beautifully but the club thought someone else may be better at picking the mids. Time will tell.

As for late picks not hurting because of salary cap, St Kilda picked Callum Wilkie and Richmond selected Mabior Chol and Jake Aarts after Silvagni and O'Dwyer. All playing good senior footy. I doubt they were thinking the picks aren't important because they don't cost you much. I can't cop that philosophy. Every pick is priceless.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:38 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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I don't think SOS picked his son. He would have been excluded from the process and it would have been signed off by the board. Blame lies elsewhere...


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:42 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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Bigger issue for me is Liddles interference in the football department activities. As CEO he can have high level oversight but team needs to be empowered to make the right decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:06 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I think it's too early to be definitive on Finbar and Ben.

As a general rule I reckon 18yo draftees need at least 4 yrs to show whether they're keepers or not.

I get the feeling Teague will rather hold onto the older guys at the expense of the younger guys which I think is a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:16 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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ColourMan wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Plowman 3rd in 2019 CFC B&F and a 3yr extension in 2020 would suggest his Coaches see what is really happening and they must be happy.

Regards Cazzesman


“Since entering the league, he has lost 46% of his defensive one-on-one contests - the second-worst losing rate of the top-200 players for contests defended“

That statistic was from his time at GWS... and he’s never been out of the bottom 10%, which means even though he may have improved, he’s still a defender who’s never been very good at defending... that’s what’s been happening!

Clearly, the coaches are happy!

I wonder if they’re the same coaches who don’t give SPS, Dow or Fisher any time in the midfield...


Plowman lost 25% of his defensive 1v1’s in 2019 (league average was 28.3%). He won 31% of his defensive 1v1’s (League average was 30.4%).
His stats as a 19yr old in the worst team in the comp are fairly irrelevant I would’ve thought.

Just as a further noteworthy stat, Plowman had the highest kick rating at the club last season. For comparison, Dow had the worst (and was bottom 5 in the league). Could explain why the coaches like Plowman and don’t have Dow in their midfield currently. Interestingly, Fisher was also in the bottom 50 in the league for field kicking in 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Wonder how Plows kick rating would look if he played inside mid :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:31 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Rexy wrote:
Wonder how Plows kick rating would look if he played inside mid :lol:

If we offered Plow a 3 year contract with the expectation that he’d play inside mid for the next 3 years, then I might start to wonder that.
For an apples/apples comparison Cripps kick rating was -1.4% Dow was -11.5%. James Worpel, as an inside mid from the same draft class as Dow, was -1.5%.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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We're all hoping Dow2.0 is an upgrade. :thumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:42 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Absolutely. I’m not necessarily saying Dow is a bad player, but there are parts of his game he needs to work on and it’s fair for the coaches to make him work on his deficiencies and earn a place in the team.

The point of my above posts was more to demonstrate Plow’s value than detract from Dow’s anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Blue Vain wrote:
Coach B wrote:
Sos had in his mind the plan to finish off the build.

I am concerned that the new team might pull the wrong reign and not get us the missing pieces required to win it all.

Don't forget Sos' was building for our next premiership, not just to make the 8. Its a big difference.

That's why I am so concerned about the Brandon Ellis saga, because 1 bad deal like that is enough to leave us without the salary cap to get the players we need to win it all.

I'm not bothered by the recruiting if his sons that should have been done with Chinese walls and a board sign off, also the salary cap taken by low picks doesn't hurt us.

Cb


It's debatable IMHO. SOS has secured some very good KPP but he's used 6 top 20 draft picks on midfielders and not one of them are playing in our centre square at the moment. (Excluding Kemp) Several cant get a game. Not to mention our inability to select a small forward.
Perhaps SOS has selected the talls beautifully but the club thought someone else may be better at picking the mids. Time will tell.

As for late picks not hurting because of salary cap, St Kilda picked Callum Wilkie and Richmond selected Mabior Chol and Jake Aarts after Silvagni and O'Dwyer. All playing good senior footy. I doubt they were thinking the picks aren't important because they don't cost you much. I can't cop that philosophy. Every pick is priceless.



Can’t argue with any of that.

:thumbsup:

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