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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:42 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2855
bondiblue wrote:
Sidefx wrote:
FarmerBlue wrote:
I was always concerned as going to Adelaide on there home deck for the start of Gather Round was asking for trouble. The momentum and energy was all their way. Losing Docherty & McGovern hurt badly.

However, it also highlighted some major issues that we have escaped so far this seaoson

1. Our ball movement especially inside 50 is pathetic
2. Our forward structure and postioning is poor
3. Our skills in general are of a low standard
4. We lack genuine depth
5. We are slow through the middle
6. Too many players don't work through the hurt and for 4 quarters. Too many passengers

What happened to the exciting run we had last year? Have we gone too defensive?

This is only a few. The coaches have a lot to work on and it is imperative for our culture that we bounce back hard next week

Great post Farmer, balanced and not hysterical.
IMO these two highlighted points are the most important issues we have to fix.
Our skills all year have been off, handballs to the knees, missing targets with 15m kicks, putting other players under more pressure than they were, key forwards missing shots right in front of goal and long kicks to no targets at all.
Adelaide were clean, blocked for players, tapped to advantage and more importantly when they had a congested F50, they held the ball up and patiently waited for a lead and had the confidence and foot skills to hit the player in the tightest of gaps.
They were changing the tempo between arcs when necessary, unlike us when we seem to do this in blocks of attack or defensive play only.
Their forward line worked as a unit and separated from each other and lead well to spread the defence, something Charlie and McKay still can't do unless way up the ground.
Their midfield had the patience to slowly work the ball out wth handballs and spread our mids creating even more space to make us look like witches hats.
They individually stuck tackles where we had to have multiple tacklers and they still got away.
These are all basic skills we lack or have not been able to do this year for extended periods during a game.

As I said last year, we really needed a quick skilful inside mid that can rack up the numbers and a bonafide ruck.
I personally think we should be shopping around TDK if he wants to go this year and getting in a gun ruck instead.
He is not a ruck and not a forward either and we already have one of those in JSOS and for all his faults he bleeds blue and at least he was at the contest working hard last night.

I also think it's time to give Hollands and Cowan a rest, very average performances by both. Hollands was at 41.7% disposal efficiency (worst in the team), he needs a break, let's not do typical Carlton and destroy these kids, they have real potential.

As for the Voss bashing, FFS it's only his second year and history has proven changing coaches like we have has got us absolutely nowhere so how about we try and stick to one for a few years instead.
Look at Geelong, if Scott was at Carlton he would've been toast many times over in the last 10 years.
And as for comparisons with Fly, Collingwood has a pretty good list with top end mature talent.
The biggest issues we have is injuries and depth, not Voss.

But it is not all doom and gloom, our chances of winning this game were slim and even slimmer with Mitch and Doc out as Farmer has stated.
We have still won more than I predicted, hopefully this is a massive rocket up the ar$e$ of the club and we come out better next week..........it's only rd 4 and we need to keep building.


100%

Hollands could’ve hanballed and hit targets for better Def% but chose to take on the opposition and run with the ball because he didn’t handball to players in worse positions as some do.

It was easy to congest our path because it was obvious we favour one side of the ground. Hollands didn’t like tired to me. He is a Duracell bunny. At one stage after a huge running effort he was tanked and tried to sprint but couldn’t. 10 seconds past, and he was off again making ground quickly.

Who would we replace Hollands with? If he does need a rest then by all means rest him. He’s a gem.


There’s a few senior guys that look like they need a rest which is a worry at r5


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:43 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Whilst nowhere near the same consequence as Round 23 last year - this is the closest I have felt to the same flat feeling after a game.... The feeling of inevitability.... The feeling of Deja Vu.... The feeling of complete an utter embarrassment....

I couldn't handle watching any more than halfway through the last quarter, so I told my wife that I was going for a walk. Which in hindsight was very strange, given I was about 7 beers deep, my dinner had just been served up and it was windy and raining outside, but I just had to get out of the house and clear my head. It was a good option!

As devastating of a loss as it was, I am just glad that it has happened so early in a very long season. We still have an opportunity to turn things around and I think that we will.

However, I have now come to the realisation that we are not ready to make that big jump from bottom 8 to the top 4 which I thought was possible this year, especially given the struggles of teams around us that we will be battling against to make the 8. Not saying it is impossible, but I think this will be another year of the rollercoaster ride, which absolutely sucks being a Blues supporter.

I will just be happy to see gradual improvement throughout the year. Making the 8 and playing in a final is a must for 2023, but I have no further expectations at this point. It is not worth being so invested until this team can get past their mental deficiencies, get over these hoodoos and prove us all wrong.

Onwards and upwards. Go Blues!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:45 pm 
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Serge Silvagni

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 925
bondiblue wrote:
All the players are here in the Virgin Loung.
They look like losers.
This defeat really stings.

It’s made everyone at the club look silly

It wasn’t the fault of peripheral players.
They owned the corridor.
The water parted and they had a lead up forward.
Do you mean they look like the loss really upset them or they look defeated?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:58 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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deano35 wrote:
Can we stop blaming injuries!!!

We need to move on from blokes like McGovern, Martin, Williams, Marchbank and Cunningham coz they can no longer be put in the 'Oh but we are missing these players from our best 22'

They are all unreliable and cannot play more than 12 games combined per season.
The only player we missed last night was Docherty that's it.
Injuries are not the problem.

Coaching, game plan and game day tactics are the real issues that need urgent attention.

We have the players
6 x All Australians
2 x Coleman medallists
Brownlow medallist
Arguably the best FB

There's plenty of clubs who are playing a better brand of footy with better game plans that have less talent on their list than us.

:clap:

I'm not upset... just disappointed

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:30 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I’m still sad…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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BigGartos wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
All the players are here in the Virgin Loung.
They look like losers.
This defeat really stings.

It’s made everyone at the club look silly

It wasn’t the fault of peripheral players.
They owned the corridor.
The water parted and they had a lead up forward.
Do you mean they look like the loss really upset them or they look defeated?

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


They looked like a pitiful lot.
Deflated would be right.
No one smiling
Russell working feverishly on his laptop….looked like a table with stats rather than a job application

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
We have been less than average since round 10 last year.
Slow ball movement.
Like last year lose the contest when it’s in close and we are gone
Nothing has changed from last year.
Voss needs to throw the magnets around and see what the team can conjure up.
You look at Adelaide and how they moved the ball.
Every defender except Butts and Murray run through the lines
Hinge and Smith are brilliant kicks
Milera, Jones and Sholl all good kicks who run out of defence
Badly missed Doc and dare I say McGovern who once again showed his legs can’t hold up to regular AFL footy
This was coming.
Hewett is clearly injured
Cripps just travelling
Kennedy injury interrupted
That’s the game
Cerra tried to lift the side but he is a fourth string mid. Give up a first and third rounder and in the long run your depth will be tested
Acres was one of the few to hold his head up but he too is your average solid citizen type player

What the Crows have mainly done is trust their recruiting staff to pick kids
Rankine and Dawson are from other clubs
Dawson has been a huge pick up
Great leader as well
Voss needs to start playing guys in different positions
Inject some ball movement
Play Binns Carroll Kemp
He needs to find out what this list can do
That won’t happen if it’s the status quo
Nothing to lose


Good summary

Too one dimensional and rely on too few
We may not have the cattle for that quick ball movement due to lack of pace and our kicking ability
Our list seems unbalanced to me, which doesn't help
Agree, need to change the mix as simply winning enough games to fall into the eight won't lead to sustained success
I was calling for a mini rebuild a few years ago. I think we have missed the boat
If we miss our premiership window, it may end up being a full blown rebuild



We're not playing good footy but I wouldn't be giving away the season just yet. :?

Our coaches and players need to re-focus and play to our strengths. For starters, forget the bullshit of playing midfielders at half back to plug holes and play system over personnel. Whilst Cripps was getting a flogging in the middle of the ground and the game was slipping away, Adam Cerra was filling in for Sam Docherty at half back.
Cerra has been a midfielder from day 1. He didn't train pre-season with the defenders. He doesn't know our defensive systems. That's why we drafted Cincotta.
If you're not going to use the bloke, why list him? Especially when he's coming off a 37 possession game. (And no it's not hindsight, I called for it before the game).

Cerra isn't fast but he's a lot faster than Cripps, he's tough and he runs both ways. But instead of bringing in a defender to replace Doc, we went with names instead of system. Just play Cerra, George and Kennedy at half back. What @#$%&! genius came up with that idea?
Cripps should have been removed from the midfield after the first 10 minutes. There were 11 centre bounces in the first quarter. Cripps attended 10. Adelaide kicked 8 goals.
He's great when he's on song but he's a ball hunter. He'll too often go into a contest when he probably can't win it and leaves his opponent on the outside unattended.
We need to forget the hero worshipping and make moves if the system isn't working. Cripps to the bench or forward pocket. Cerra into the middle with Ed and George and shut it down. Play man on man in the centre square to take away the momentum.

Leadership. FFS, don't wait for the runner. If Cripps knows he's being beaten, make the move yourself. Weitering. Don't punch the ball when you're one out. Show some balls and take a hit if it's coming. To see Hollands, Young and Weitering punch the ball when they thought contact was coming makes me sick. Same for Acres kicking the ball out of the air instead of grabbing it. Players fumbling because they feel the pressure coming.
That's the stuff I'm talking about when you play Blokes like LOB. You send a message that half hearted efforts are accepted. They're not.
Culture is more than running ability and kicking efficiency. Standards have to be set and met by everyone in the jumper.

The strategy of pushing a half forward up to the stoppages is acceptable if he's doing more damage than his opponent but unless it's Sam Walsh, I'm yet to see anyone else succeed. Sheezel looked like a world beater last week in the last quarter. My mother could get possessions running around without an opponent. Meanwhile people talk up Fisher's game last week. Look at who he played on.

Same with our strategy of running a half back into the square at centre bounces. (Doherty's role). It works for Nick Daicos so the rest of the sheep follow suit. You need to win centre clearances for it to work.
How about we come up with some strategies that allow our midfielders to win some contests without everyone coming to bail them out. If they can't, replace them.
I look at Rachele, Papley and other small mids creating havoc at centre bounces. Nimble, fast feet, clean hands. Why not give Durdin a go? He was a mid, he moves well. When your 6,7 or 8 goals down in the first quarter, the status quo needs to be re-addressed.

In saying that, we're still top 8 and we've shown we can compete against the best (Collingwood, Melbourne Rounds 22 and 23 last year)
We just need to get some flexibility into our side, start trusting players to flourish in other roles and forget the hero worshipping.
We have the talent, we just need to find the hunger. Half arsed smother attempts, piss weak tackles. It's time for Vossy to lay down the law. Our soft underbelly was exposed last night and its time to eradicate it. We're still well in the hunt if we can get some issues ironed out.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:45 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24990
Location: Bondi Beach
Holy Moly
Just looking at stats now.

Laird 15 score involvements 37 possessions … he could easily fit into our midfield
Dawson 11 score involvements

We were hunted and bullied.

When we hunted, the Crows had a good understanding what to do to get the ball to loose man.

It looked like they knew what we were going to do and closed us down at will.
We couldn’t connect not only because of a lack of method but sadly also a lack of skill.

WTF do these boys do all week?
They should be able to kick and handball on a favoured side with perfection, at the very least, let alone both sides.

From the days of Barrasi in the 70s to the Parkin era In the ea4ly 90s you wouldn’t be selected unless you were competent on kicking both sides of the body, handballs had to spin backwards and flat from either hand otherwise the player became a liability.

Need to lift standards

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:59 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 12:15 am
Posts: 3175
Location: The Wild West
Blue Vain wrote:
WOW wrote:
keogh wrote:
We have been less than average since round 10 last year.
Slow ball movement.
Like last year lose the contest when it’s in close and we are gone
Nothing has changed from last year.
Voss needs to throw the magnets around and see what the team can conjure up.
You look at Adelaide and how they moved the ball.
Every defender except Butts and Murray run through the lines
Hinge and Smith are brilliant kicks
Milera, Jones and Sholl all good kicks who run out of defence
Badly missed Doc and dare I say McGovern who once again showed his legs can’t hold up to regular AFL footy
This was coming.
Hewett is clearly injured
Cripps just travelling
Kennedy injury interrupted
That’s the game
Cerra tried to lift the side but he is a fourth string mid. Give up a first and third rounder and in the long run your depth will be tested
Acres was one of the few to hold his head up but he too is your average solid citizen type player

What the Crows have mainly done is trust their recruiting staff to pick kids
Rankine and Dawson are from other clubs
Dawson has been a huge pick up
Great leader as well
Voss needs to start playing guys in different positions
Inject some ball movement
Play Binns Carroll Kemp
He needs to find out what this list can do
That won’t happen if it’s the status quo
Nothing to lose


Good summary

Too one dimensional and rely on too few
We may not have the cattle for that quick ball movement due to lack of pace and our kicking ability
Our list seems unbalanced to me, which doesn't help
Agree, need to change the mix as simply winning enough games to fall into the eight won't lead to sustained success
I was calling for a mini rebuild a few years ago. I think we have missed the boat
If we miss our premiership window, it may end up being a full blown rebuild



We're not playing good footy but I wouldn't be giving away the season just yet. :?

Our coaches and players need to re-focus and play to our strengths. For starters, forget the bullshit of playing midfielders at half back to plug holes and play system over personnel. Whilst Cripps was getting a flogging in the middle of the ground and the game was slipping away, Adam Cerra was filling in for Sam Docherty at half back.
Cerra has been a midfielder from day 1. He didn't train pre-season with the defenders. He doesn't know our defensive systems. That's why we drafted Cincotta.
If you're not going to use the bloke, why list him? Especially when he's coming off a 37 possession game. (And no it's not hindsight, I called for it before the game).

Cerra isn't fast but he's a lot faster than Cripps, he's tough and he runs both ways. But instead of bringing in a defender to replace Doc, we went with names instead of system. Just play Cerra, George and Kennedy at half back. What @#$%&! genius came up with that idea?
Cripps should have been removed from the midfield after the first 10 minutes. There were 11 centre bounces in the first quarter. Cripps attended 10. Adelaide kicked 8 goals.
He's great when he's on song but he's a ball hunter. He'll too often go into a contest when he probably can't win it and leaves his opponent on the outside unattended.
We need to forget the hero worshipping and make moves if the system isn't working. Cripps to the bench or forward pocket. Cerra into the middle with Ed and George and shut it down. Play man on man in the centre square to take away the momentum.

Leadership. FFS, don't wait for the runner. If Cripps knows he's being beaten, make the move yourself. Weitering. Don't punch the ball when you're one out. Show some balls and take a hit if it's coming. To see Hollands, Young and Weitering punch the ball when they thought contact was coming makes me sick. Same for Acres kicking the ball out of the air instead of grabbing it. Players fumbling because they feel the pressure coming.
That's the stuff I'm talking about when you play Blokes like LOB. You send a message that half hearted efforts are accepted. They're not.
Culture is more than running ability and kicking efficiency. Standards have to be set and met by everyone in the jumper.

The strategy of pushing a half forward up to the stoppages is acceptable if he's doing more damage than his opponent but unless it's Sam Walsh, I'm yet to see anyone else succeed. Sheezel looked like a world beater last week in the last quarter. My mother could get possessions running around without an opponent. Meanwhile people talk up Fisher's game last week. Look at who he played on.

Same with our strategy of running a half back into the square at centre bounces. (Doherty's role). It works for Nick Daicos so the rest of the sheep follow suit. You need to win centre clearances for it to work.
How about we come up with some strategies that allow our midfielders to win some contests without everyone coming to bail them out. If they can't, replace them.
I look at Rachele, Papley and other small mids creating havoc at centre bounces. Nimble, fast feet, clean hands. Why not give Durdin a go? He was a mid, he moves well. When your 6,7 or 8 goals down in the first quarter, the status quo needs to be re-addressed.

In saying that, we're still top 8 and we've shown we can compete against the best (Collingwood, Melbourne Rounds 22 and 23 last year)
We just need to get some flexibility into our side, start trusting players to flourish in other roles and forget the hero worshipping.
We have the talent, we just need to find the hunger. Half arsed smother attempts, piss weak tackles. It's time for Vossy to lay down the law. Our soft underbelly was exposed last night and its time to eradicate it. We're still well in the hunt if we can get some issues ironed out.


Nice post BV - agree with everything you said 100%. :thumbsup:

Leadership was severely lacking last night and it was plain to see.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:45 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6348
As you said in a previous post BV we really haven’t played well all year
We have 10 days till the Aints game
Extra time to sort things out
I just think Voss has to give Kemp and Dow at least a month
Particularly Kemp who I think can play
Half arsed efforts shit me too
Fisher should be dropped
Standards need to be adhered to
Back to basics
Voss has a 3 year deal


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:54 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:08 pm
Posts: 263
Location: melborne
The 19 tram wrote:
mymanmurph wrote:
Reilley O’Brien killed us in the middle! We were outplayed and out coached. we are so fortunate to have 2 forwards other teams would kill for and we don’t complement them with smalls we add resting ruckmen to compete with.when the ball Hits the ground and we get run off our feet.
We look so much better with 1 ruck.
Rant over :)
hopefully we switch on for Saints as I think they would’ve won by more tonight


I was at the game last night. Drove over. Father/son road trip.

We sat on the wing - I had a perfect view of O'Brien taking away TDK's run and jump at the football. Perfect ruckwork by O'Brien. TDK did not change up one thing. He was smashed at the centre bounce time and again. If any club comes calling with some decent draft picks I am making out like a bandit and going to the draft...



TDK wants to be a ruckman - he isn't.


Yeah I’d let him go for a decent pick! We can’t be paying him big $ on promise


Last edited by mymanmurph on Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:13 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Location: Brisbane
We are the navy whites.

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Until each team plays each other the same number of times, the AFL, as a fair dinkum competition, cannot be taken seriously.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:29 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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bluedog wrote:
CFC8795 wrote:
This is the first and last Gather Round? Am I right?



Haven't heard that.

Hope you're right, but I doubt it.

It's just wishful thinking by me.
If we had won last night, I'd be saying 'bring it on!'

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:21 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
keogh wrote:
As you said in a previous post BV we really haven’t played well all year
We have 10 days till the Aints game
Extra time to sort things out
I just think Voss has to give Kemp and Dow at least a month
Particularly Kemp who I think can play
Half arsed efforts shit me too
Fisher should be dropped
Standards need to be adhered to
Back to basics
Voss has a 3 year deal


Fisher is at the core of our problems...has played 100 of the most conditional games you'll ever want to see and Voss gives him votes last week on the back of an improved second half

I wouldve dropped him or made him sub.

Voss' other problem is selection integrity...too many to mention but for me, the 3 chocolate icings on the cake this year (apart from Fisher and LOB) were
1. using the "like for like" argument to keep Dow out all year but replacing Hewett with Durdin earlier in the year
2. denying Carroll another opportunity as sub, in favour of a totally clueless Honey who was 5 X less effective last week than what Dow was last year in his one and only game
3. Bringing in Plowman when Cincotta (who has a mature body) can play HB/mid to cover for Docherty

These bizarre selections/non selections impact the locker room...believe it!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:32 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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rhino27 wrote:
Am I right in saying that Sam Walsh's goal in the first half was (other than Doc's 2 long bombs), the only goal kicked by one of our mids this year?
The great man achieved in less than half of footy something the rest of our mids have failed to do in 5 games.
Yes pretty much but Ed Curnow has one and Doc plays mainly off half back.
Our mids are not hitting the scoreboard

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:33 pm 
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John Nicholls

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We didn't look that much different to the other 4 games only our defense didn't absorb
tHeir momentum. Doch and Gov out probably part of that. The crows back 6 were outstanding also.
H and Chuck are kicking goals but neither in good marking form.
Disappointing but not surprising.
At some point this year I would like us to pick a strong running team. Cot, lob, Holland, Acres...all in
and Voss allows the 22 to take some risks on the attack.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 11:12 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:08 pm
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Was JSOS shifted back or was he heading back during play to help out?
could he make the switch to defence….
We Need durable players in a defensive setup and Gov and marchbank just aren’t .
Our forward line isn’t functioning as we have 2 of the best Talls in the Comp and we add more we need 2 f half forwards that chase and hustle.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 6:22 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
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mymanmurph wrote:
Was JSOS shifted back or was he heading back during play to help out?
could he make the switch to defence….
We Need durable players in a defensive setup and Gov and marchbank just aren’t .
Our forward line isn’t functioning as we have 2 of the best Talls in the Comp and we add more we need 2 f half forwards that chase and hustle.


Don’t think SOS will fix our issue of transition from defence to forward 50

Not enough pace and is a suspect kick

The player we are really missing is Williams

McGovern and Williams would have been a great combination with Saad as rebounding defenders

Pity both are injury prone and unlikely to offer what we really need


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:01 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9758
Location: Australia
lucablue wrote:
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:



JSoS: I love your heart and your commitment, but you have failed to have any real consistent impact this season. So much effort to get to contests - either full on or minimal but generally do not take the mark. No impact on the scoreboard.



I thought the same thing tonight. I've never seen a player work so hard to get himself into good position to mark the ball so many times. But then drop it through his own hands, not punched by opposition player.


Am I the only one who thought JSOS made a positive difference when he went into the ruck? TDK and Pitt were smashed all night.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:07 am 
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Rod Ashman
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Too early for pay outs or will i be accused of criticizing the club again :donk:


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