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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:17 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
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Traveller86 wrote:
McKay featured tonight On The Couch.

Wearing ripped jeans, joking around calling Garry "Gaz" several times.

Would've thought we'd have a media blackout after the last few weeks.


the media people at carlton have no flowering idea. seriously this kind of crap needs to stop. don’t care if it was booked in weeks ago. cancel it.

also the open day Carlton College turned on was more like a campaign to drive people away from the college from what we experienced.

never sent anything to the club officials except membership fees but getting close to offering some gratuitous PR/comms and marketing advice!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:20 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
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sinbagger wrote:
I’d like to see Stocker have a run in the midfield. We need some size and strength to replace Cripps, Kennedy and Hewitt.

Stocker, Dow, Walsh and Cerra. Maybe some JSOS too.


stocker will get run rings around him by Oliver, Petracca. et al but he might account for himself with intent and physicality. delivery not a strength.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:21 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
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sinbagger wrote:
We really miss Ed Curnow at a time like this


100%.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:26 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
MPH78 wrote:
I admit to having only watched the clip with Harry’s answer re will the season still be a success if we missed finals.

Having now watched the whole interview and having the full context, my earlier response is perhaps an overreaction.

Still believe though that we can embrace the opportunity in front of us more wholeheartedly and not ‘manage expectations’.

Pleased to hear him say that we need to fix our contest and have more dare with our ball movement.


i guess forwards aren’t known for saying i got thoroughly pants for the last five weeks but i intend to change that this week against the best one on one contest play defenders in the league. (pies beat them by getting out the back door and running hard for chains of uncontested marks — something we need to learn because our F50 has been constantly
clogged and unimaginative since the bye except for Q4 last week. what Lloyd said about Melb against lies could have been said about us, selfish and taking the wrong choices when we have unmarked know goal kickers inside F50’we kick to a one on one or a two on two every time.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:23 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
Quote:
Carlton’s quest to play its first finals series since 2013 has been complicated given the loss of the side’s “strength” over recent weeks.

Carlton started the year with one of the dominant midfield units, Patrick Cripps leading a brutal on-ball brigade featuring Marc Pittonet, George Hewett, Matthew Kennedy, Sam Walsh and Adam Cerra.


But the drop-off from earlier this season to Round 21 is stark. The Blues lost to Brisbane by 33 points on Sunday, but of particular concern, were belted in centre clearances.

Hewett hasn’t played since Round 18 with a back problem, while Kennedy has a fractured jaw and could return in Round 23.

This issue has been compounded by Cripps’ two-game suspension and injuries to depth midfielders including Ed Curnow.

“They lost the centre clearances 23-9, that was their strength,” Essendon* great Matthew Lloyd told Sportsday.

“So they’ve lost that strength now with no Kennedy and no Hewett and now Patrick Cripps.”

Cripps was cited by the MRO for a bump on Lion Calum Ah Chee and is staring down the barrel of a two-game suspension.

If he’s suspended, it would leave first-year Blue and former Docker Cerra to lead the inside midfield in Round 22 against Sydney.

On Cerra, Sportsday co-host Sam McClure said: “Cerra’s been a bit down, I’m not sure if that’s harsh or not”.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/08/criticism-of-midfield-recruit-highlights-where-blues-have-lost-their/

Quote:
Will Hayes, Jack Carroll and Lache Fogarty remain depth options available in the VFL to add to Carlton’s battered midfield, while Liam Stocker could also fill a role.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:35 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
diesel95 wrote:
CK95 wrote:
Our only chance is if Melbourne have an off night, but I doubt it. They will be filthy after their loss


if it’s a night game that’s not a good thing. i haven’t checked but my feeling is we have lost most of our nightgames this year. can’t handle the big stage? ball too slippery? (nope that is not it) something else? how about indoor games at marvel with the roof shut? not much better i suspect.



We were in good form from the start of the season, and when we had only lost Gov, Oscar, Martin, Ed, and one of the Fab 5 sporadically we were capable of taking the scalps of Richmond, Sydney and Bulldogs. We also won other night games against North and Effendruggies on their 150th Anniversary game.

How easy many Carlton supporters have forgotten the heights our team have reached this year, till they succumbed to injury. Repeat injury.

No doubt we are up against it.

Its Vossy's first year, and our players had been drilled by Teague to kick more than the opposition, which was easier said than done, and that had to be undone.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:44 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
diesel95 wrote:
david31 wrote:
MPH78 wrote:
The vicious cycle of modern Carlton has broken me again.

When you think we have finally turned it around, we regress to previous depths and produce two of the worst games you’ll see back to back. With everything to play for.

Just can’t fathom how we could be so poor? Raises so many questions. How and why have we fallen away so badly?

The mindset, intent, effort, work rate, pressure, skill level has all been deplorable and wouldn’t have beaten any other side. Inexcusable.

Bracing for utter heartbreak the next two weeks. Can’t see us winning either game.

Yep. Well summed up. They appear to have found another way to let themselves and the supporters down - raise the expectations with a good start to the season and fall off a cliff late in the year to miss the 8.


we got clearance — especially centre bounce clearance — domination in the first part of the season. Hewitt and Cerra added depth, grunt and class. Kennedy improved out of sight, but has fallen back in the pack of AFL mids who can be effective in the F50 since then. Pitto went down and by the time he came back the synchronicity was gone and the opponents had worked out strategies to neutralise our kids at throw ups. double that when any of the top four mods are out, let alone half of them.

that’s AFL, teams constantly adjusting to new game styles, rule interpretations and team form. i’m pleased with this season, as much as it disappointments me to see Teague level thrashings in the last two games.


It has been discussed regularly that Kennedy cops a pounding week in week out and he is playing injured. But he continued to do the tough stuff, copping corkies and bruises and still players well, but like Durdin and Owies, not seen in the F50 for a long time: something changed to help us work on our turnover game.

It has been a great learning year. Harry knows not to take a banana kick from a set shot in front of goal, Cripps knows not to jump into players, Austin knows we need more depth in the midfield group and replace Ed, Dow and Setterfield....and many more learnings we can all discuss at the end of the season in 2 or 4 weeks time. Even if we make Finals, players like Williams and Boyd will be half baked and the rest will be bruised, battered and undermanned, and still unsure of the balance of our game plan, and what type of kick to execute for goal. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:49 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
I just watched McKays appearance on "The Couch".
I thought he was brilliant. He thought before he opened his mouth, he was articulate, honest and gave a personal insight into the club and its workings.
Couldn't have been more impressed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:06 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9625
Location: Australia
diesel95 wrote:
BigBlueWave wrote:
The comeback in the last quarter meant nothing ... Brisbane took their foot off the gas.

As I have said before.

Rather than the philosophy 'steady as she goes ... stay with the process', we badly need to change it up.


it counts for something. as Voss said it doesn’t hide the fact that when the game was there to be won we failed badly. but it counts. there’s no doubt Brisbane were trying to stop our momentum. Fagan was losing his shit standing in front of the resting players bench shouting at the players and coaches and waving his arms.

it counts for a lot.

Melbourne don’t have the good form of Brisbane. given how little having our A-listers playing seems to correlate to win-loss outcomes this year, i think we can take Melbourne if they let their guard down for parts of the game. doesn’t mean it will be easy.

also as for no changes, Voss moved silvani back and fisher in the middle for more speed in the middle. not sure what else he moved round, haven’t been game to watch the vision yet. prob first time he’s done it all year and seem to have an impact. or he was just part of the same cosmic sea change that had Brisbane drop off and our forward line click into gear for the first time in weeks. i’m glad they can actually kick goals.

and her wiz, Motlop out marked not one but two much taller opponents near the goal square and kicked a pearler so there’s that too.


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Young into the ruck also sparked a momentum change twice in the match.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:10 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Hmmm….

Young Lewis Young to ruck…and TDK
to defence…!

*grabs chin with finger and thumb…looks
into distance*


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:10 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9625
Location: Australia
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
Carlton’s quest to play its first finals series since 2013 has been complicated given the loss of the side’s “strength” over recent weeks.

Carlton started the year with one of the dominant midfield units, Patrick Cripps leading a brutal on-ball brigade featuring Marc Pittonet, George Hewett, Matthew Kennedy, Sam Walsh and Adam Cerra.


But the drop-off from earlier this season to Round 21 is stark. The Blues lost to Brisbane by 33 points on Sunday, but of particular concern, were belted in centre clearances.

Hewett hasn’t played since Round 18 with a back problem, while Kennedy has a fractured jaw and could return in Round 23.

This issue has been compounded by Cripps’ two-game suspension and injuries to depth midfielders including Ed Curnow.

“They lost the centre clearances 23-9, that was their strength,” Essendon** great Matthew Lloyd told Sportsday.

“So they’ve lost that strength now with no Kennedy and no Hewett and now Patrick Cripps.”

Cripps was cited by the MRO for a bump on Lion Calum Ah Chee and is staring down the barrel of a two-game suspension.

If he’s suspended, it would leave first-year Blue and former Docker Cerra to lead the inside midfield in Round 22 against Sydney.

On Cerra, Sportsday co-host Sam McClure said: “Cerra’s been a bit down, I’m not sure if that’s harsh or not”.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/08/criticism-of-midfield-recruit-highlights-where-blues-have-lost-their/

Quote:
Will Hayes, Jack Carroll and Lache Fogarty remain depth options available in the VFL to add to Carlton’s battered midfield, while Liam Stocker could also fill a role.


Cerra will lead the midfield? What about that bloke Walsh, he goes ok I think?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:11 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Posts: 9625
Location: Australia
tommi wrote:
Hmmm….

Young Lewis Young to ruck…and TDK
to defence…!

*grabs chin with finger and thumb…looks
into distance*


kindest regards tommi


Actually young Young went to ruck while it was young Silvagni was the one who went to defence.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:10 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
DocSherrin III wrote:
I thought he was great. If you're looking for fault in a bit of designer ripped denim jeans, then it tells me you're seeking criticism before the lad opens his mouth. What Harry said was spot on. The year has been a success in terms of implementing the culture and leadership that we want moving forward. He spoke about changes of coach, CEO and President taking place but a core group of on-field leaders who were on the same page and hell bent on taking the club forward and achieving success. Harry was too young to remember Rachel Hunter, but what he was saying echoed the New Zealand beauty to a T. "It won't heppen overnight, but it wull heppen".



Watched it last night and agree with you DSIII

Assuming he is not lying, he's basically told us that it's more important INITIALLY to build a culture off field and an offfield-onfield synergy where everyone is pulling in the same direction
You know what...if I had a choice between

A: 12 wins (wiith lots of frustration) but the club is all invested OR
B: 13 wins, playing finals but there's sh1t going on behind the scenes,

give me A each and every day of the week

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:18 am 
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Stephen Kernahan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am
Posts: 17951
As much as I'd be extremely disappointed to see Cripps miss 2 games, I love the opportunity that these moments present to players.
Some players can't or don't have the ability to show their full potential when they're in the shadow of star players but when they're presented with opportunities, they step up. I recall a match a few years ago against in Freo where Cripps and McKay were out injured and we lost Charlie in the first quarter. Ed Curnow who had been playing as a stopper was required to be our inside, ball winning mid.
He had 16 clearances and played a huge game. 30 something disposals, plenty of defensive pressure and we won the game.
That's what can come from opportunity.

Dow was poor on the weekend but this week if Cripps misses, this is his week. Voss needs to stand him up in front of the group and tell him he's the man this week. He needs to do what he does best. Win the clearance, get his hands dirty and step out from the shadow.
We need Pitto this week. We need his size and aggression against Gawn and his ability to win clearances. He really shone in that area earlier in the year. TDK stays in.
I'd consider playing Jack on Oliver as well. He plays best when he has a defined role IMHO.

So the changes for me are Fogarty and Pitto in for Cripps and Martin. I know Jack Carroll is the future but Fogarty is the now. He's dominating VFL footy and we'll need the midfield back up.

We need to return to the faster, offensive footy of earlier in the year. If we play the slow, down the line footy of recent, May and Lever will destroy us. Play on more, use the short kicking to shift the play and then get the outside run instead of hand balling to players under pressure.
And mix up the midfield. Corey Durdin was ranked the best player in the country playing midfield as an Under 16. Give him small stints at centre bounces. He's clean, close to the ground, has a good step and he has energy.
Our problem isn't so much about personnel, its about finding the correct balance between offensive flair and defensive correction. More dare, more risks and more run. If we try to beat Melbourne by keeping the ball in contest, we will lose.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:19 am 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:54 pm
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sinbagger wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Quote:
Carlton’s quest to play its first finals series since 2013 has been complicated given the loss of the side’s “strength” over recent weeks.

Carlton started the year with one of the dominant midfield units, Patrick Cripps leading a brutal on-ball brigade featuring Marc Pittonet, George Hewett, Matthew Kennedy, Sam Walsh and Adam Cerra.


But the drop-off from earlier this season to Round 21 is stark. The Blues lost to Brisbane by 33 points on Sunday, but of particular concern, were belted in centre clearances.

Hewett hasn’t played since Round 18 with a back problem, while Kennedy has a fractured jaw and could return in Round 23.

This issue has been compounded by Cripps’ two-game suspension and injuries to depth midfielders including Ed Curnow.

“They lost the centre clearances 23-9, that was their strength,” Essendon*** great Matthew Lloyd told Sportsday.

“So they’ve lost that strength now with no Kennedy and no Hewett and now Patrick Cripps.”

Cripps was cited by the MRO for a bump on Lion Calum Ah Chee and is staring down the barrel of a two-game suspension.

If he’s suspended, it would leave first-year Blue and former Docker Cerra to lead the inside midfield in Round 22 against Sydney.

On Cerra, Sportsday co-host Sam McClure said: “Cerra’s been a bit down, I’m not sure if that’s harsh or not”.


https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/08/08/criticism-of-midfield-recruit-highlights-where-blues-have-lost-their/

Quote:
Will Hayes, Jack Carroll and Lache Fogarty remain depth options available in the VFL to add to Carlton’s battered midfield, while Liam Stocker could also fill a role.


Cerra will lead the midfield? What about that bloke Walsh, he goes ok I think?


Given the article says he's leading the inside midfield in Round 22 against Sydney, it's obviously Walsh who is leading it against Melbourne! :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:22 am 
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Craig Bradley
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We have challenged Cripps bump.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:31 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
I just watched McKays appearance on "The Couch".
I thought he was brilliant. He thought before he opened his mouth, he was articulate, honest and gave a personal insight into the club and its workings.
Couldn't have been more impressed.



He was cool at a time when there's a media circus going on around him.

Cool as a cucumber.

He highlighted how far we've come this year, and that IS a positive.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:32 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24699
Location: Bondi Beach
sinbagger wrote:
tommi wrote:
Hmmm….

Young Lewis Young to ruck…and TDK
to defence…!

*grabs chin with finger and thumb…looks
into distance*


kindest regards tommi


Actually young Young went to ruck while it was young Silvagni was the one who went to defence.


I didnt realise that.

Thanks for that.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:35 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
99prelim wrote:
DocSherrin III wrote:
I thought he was great. If you're looking for fault in a bit of designer ripped denim jeans, then it tells me you're seeking criticism before the lad opens his mouth. What Harry said was spot on. The year has been a success in terms of implementing the culture and leadership that we want moving forward. He spoke about changes of coach, CEO and President taking place but a core group of on-field leaders who were on the same page and hell bent on taking the club forward and achieving success. Harry was too young to remember Rachel Hunter, but what he was saying echoed the New Zealand beauty to a T. "It won't heppen overnight, but it wull heppen".



Watched it last night and agree with you DSIII

Assuming he is not lying, he's basically told us that it's more important INITIALLY to build a culture off field and an offfield-onfield synergy where everyone is pulling in the same direction
You know what...if I had a choice between

A: 12 wins (wiith lots of frustration) but the club is all invested OR
B: 13 wins, playing finals but there's sh1t going on behind the scenes,

give me A each and every day of the week


100%. Voss and his coaching team has not only united the playing group but has them believing in themselves again. no easy turn around. the oppositions are always learning new ways to beat us as we improve, so to be expected at the tough end of the season against quality opposition we got a bit of a down turn in form (Adelaide i guess aren’t quality but sure turned on a physical game).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:40 am 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 1127
Blue Vain wrote:
As much as I'd be extremely disappointed to see Cripps miss 2 games, I love the opportunity that these moments present to players.
Some players can't or don't have the ability to show their full potential when they're in the shadow of star players but when they're presented with opportunities, they step up. I recall a match a few years ago against in Freo where Cripps and McKay were out injured and we lost Charlie in the first quarter. Ed Curnow who had been playing as a stopper was required to be our inside, ball winning mid.
He had 16 clearances and played a huge game. 30 something disposals, plenty of defensive pressure and we won the game.
That's what can come from opportunity.

Dow was poor on the weekend but this week if Cripps misses, this is his week. Voss needs to stand him up in front of the group and tell him he's the man this week. He needs to do what he does best. Win the clearance, get his hands dirty and step out from the shadow.
We need Pitto this week. We need his size and aggression against Gawn and his ability to win clearances. He really shone in that area earlier in the year. TDK stays in.
I'd consider playing Jack on Oliver as well. He plays best when he has a defined role IMHO.

So the changes for me are Fogarty and Pitto in for Cripps and Martin. I know Jack Carroll is the future but Fogarty is the now. He's dominating VFL footy and we'll need the midfield back up.

We need to return to the faster, offensive footy of earlier in the year. If we play the slow, down the line footy of recent, May and Lever will destroy us. Play on more, use the short kicking to shift the play and then get the outside run instead of hand balling to players under pressure.
And mix up the midfield. Corey Durdin was ranked the best player in the country playing midfield as an Under 16. Give him small stints at centre bounces. He's clean, close to the ground, has a good step and he has energy.
Our problem isn't so much about personnel, its about finding the correct balance between offensive flair and defensive correction. More dare, more risks and more run. If we try to beat Melbourne by keeping the ball in contest, we will lose.


nice analysis.

lemons → lemonade.


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