Rd 4: Gold Coast v Carlton (post match discussion)

FarmerBlue · **Joined:** Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am **Posts:** 1495

Effes wrote:

From twitter:

Carlton first 3 weeks kicked 6.9, 7.2 & 7.3 from stoppages. Managed only 0.4 yesterday.

AFL is about effort. If effort isn't there any side will struggle. I thought ours was very poor

missnaut · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:47 am

CK95 wrote:

I've been wondering if there's a gymmae at PP

Yeah it's in the vibration room.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:22 am

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Nothing changes.
Teddy wants Setters dropped on a weekly basis and Keogh re-appears with 20 negative posts after a loss.

Very true.

Setterfield was doing nothing even when we were winning. You disputing that?

Meanwhile we have guys like Dow in the VFL. Wing may not be his natural position but give him a go. Couldn't do any worse.

By the way, Setterfield was picked at 5 in his draft year. Maybe he wouldn't be getting games if not for that. :smile:

I'm not convinced Setterfield and LOB own the wings, and feel we need an upgrade on them. I think they will get better and I don't want Dow on a wing either. Period.

I've watched Dow's games in the reserves and still think he's lazy after the clearance, like his job is done.
I think Dow on a wing would be a disaster. He doesn't run defensively, and doesn't hunt the ball. He waits for a ball up or centre bounce to get close to the action as if its his cue to commit to a contest.
So the idea is sticking Dow on a wing for the sake of change?
2 wrongs don't make a right. IMO its a weak proposition teddy.

Dow can come in as an inside mid now that Cripps is out. He's an inside mid. I'm not sure if he will ever be a dominant mid, but he's an inside mid. Would like to see what he's got to offer in that role, now that he's supposedly in form.

We have seen Dow dominate in the reserves before and come in to play HF, and wing and failed. But when Teague gave him a (rare) go as an inside mid he went alright, but wasn't allowed to develop his game. He should not have been dropped after the Effendruggies game last year after he had 11 disposals in the first quarter. Teague made the wrong decision by the player and the club.

Setterfield was on the ground 90% of the game, and had 20 disposals vs GC at 70% efficiency, so 14 effective disposals.
I thought he was weak at the contest on the weekend.
I thought LOB was about the same.

We need to upgrade our wings if these 2 don't improve.

I dispute that Setterfield has been ineffective when we were winning.
He played 2 great, yes great, first halves in the first 2 rounds, then did well in the last Qtr vs Tigers but faded vs Dogs.
He was crap vs Hawks imo.

The wing is such an important position. Watch Isaac Smith play the position. Ed Langdon. Supreme runners and ball users, and they play important roles for their teams.
There's players building to challenge who might be able to play the wing position, not like Langdon or Smith.

Fingers crossed 2 of Carroll, Philp, Cuningham (or trade) make a difference because Martin and Williamson don't look interested.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:23 am

FarmerBlue wrote:

Effes wrote:

From twitter:

Carlton first 3 weeks kicked 6.9, 7.2 & 7.3 from stoppages. Managed only 0.4 yesterday.

AFL is about effort. If effort isn't there any side will struggle. I thought ours was very poor

I think that's what happened with Cerra and Kennedy in the engine room. They were not switched on.

sinbagger · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:39 am

bondiblue wrote:

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Nothing changes.
Teddy wants Setters dropped on a weekly basis and Keogh re-appears with 20 negative posts after a loss.

Very true.

Setterfield was doing nothing even when we were winning. You disputing that?

Meanwhile we have guys like Dow in the VFL. Wing may not be his natural position but give him a go. Couldn't do any worse.

By the way, Setterfield was picked at 5 in his draft year. Maybe he wouldn't be getting games if not for that. :smile:

I'm not convinced Setterfield and LOB own the wings, and feel we need an upgrade on them. I think they will get better and I don't want Dow on a wing either. Period.

I've watched Dow's games in the reserves and still think he's lazy after the clearance, like his job is done.
I think Dow on a wing would be a disaster. He doesn't run defensively, and doesn't hunt the ball. He waits for a ball up or centre bounce to get close to the action as if its his cue to commit to a contest.
So the idea is sticking Dow on a wing for the sake of change?
2 wrongs don't make a right. IMO its a weak proposition teddy.

Dow can come in as an inside mid now that Cripps is out. He's an inside mid. I'm not sure if he will ever be a dominant mid, but he's an inside mid. Would like to see what he's got to offer in that role, now that he's supposedly in form.

We have seen Dow dominate in the reserves before and come in to play HF, and wing and failed. But when Teague gave him a (rare) go as an inside mid he went alright, but wasn't allowed to develop his game. He should not have been dropped after the Effendruggies game last year after he had 11 disposals in the first quarter. Teague made the wrong decision by the player and the club.

Setterfield was on the ground 90% of the game, and had 20 disposals vs GC at 70% efficiency, so 14 effective disposals.
I thought he was weak at the contest on the weekend.
I thought LOB was about the same.

We need to upgrade our wings if these 2 don't improve.

I dispute that Setterfield has been ineffective when we were winning.
He played 2 great, yes great, first halves in the first 2 rounds, then did well in the last Qtr vs Tigers but faded vs Dogs.
He was crap vs Hawks imo.

The wing is such an important position. Watch Isaac Smith play the position. Ed Langdon. Supreme runners and ball users, and they play important roles for their teams.
There's players building to challenge who might be able to play the wing position, not like Langdon or Smith.

Fingers crossed 2 of Carroll, Philp, Cuningham (or trade) make a difference because Martin and Williamson don't look interested.

Agree very much with this, if Dow comes in he has to play exclusively on ball, we would be better off pushing Cerra onto a wing than Dow.

grrofunger · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:08 pm

MVP Voting: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=37452

Teddy Hopkins · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 2:58 pm

bondiblue wrote:

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Nothing changes.
Teddy wants Setters dropped on a weekly basis and Keogh re-appears with 20 negative posts after a loss.

Very true.

Setterfield was doing nothing even when we were winning. You disputing that?

Meanwhile we have guys like Dow in the VFL. Wing may not be his natural position but give him a go. Couldn't do any worse.

By the way, Setterfield was picked at 5 in his draft year. Maybe he wouldn't be getting games if not for that. :smile:

I'm not convinced Setterfield and LOB own the wings, and feel we need an upgrade on them. I think they will get better and I don't want Dow on a wing either. Period.

I've watched Dow's games in the reserves and still think he's lazy after the clearance, like his job is done.
I think Dow on a wing would be a disaster. He doesn't run defensively, and doesn't hunt the ball. He waits for a ball up or centre bounce to get close to the action as if its his cue to commit to a contest.
So the idea is sticking Dow on a wing for the sake of change?
2 wrongs don't make a right. IMO its a weak proposition teddy.

Dow can come in as an inside mid now that Cripps is out. He's an inside mid. I'm not sure if he will ever be a dominant mid, but he's an inside mid. Would like to see what he's got to offer in that role, now that he's supposedly in form.

We have seen Dow dominate in the reserves before and come in to play HF, and wing and failed. But when Teague gave him a (rare) go as an inside mid he went alright, but wasn't allowed to develop his game. He should not have been dropped after the Effendruggies game last year after he had 11 disposals in the first quarter. Teague made the wrong decision by the player and the club.

Setterfield was on the ground 90% of the game, and had 20 disposals vs GC at 70% efficiency, so 14 effective disposals.
I thought he was weak at the contest on the weekend.
I thought LOB was about the same.

We need to upgrade our wings if these 2 don't improve.

I dispute that Setterfield has been ineffective when we were winning.
He played 2 great, yes great, first halves in the first 2 rounds, then did well in the last Qtr vs Tigers but faded vs Dogs.
He was crap vs Hawks imo.

The wing is such an important position. Watch Isaac Smith play the position. Ed Langdon. Supreme runners and ball users, and they play important roles for their teams.
There's players building to challenge who might be able to play the wing position, not like Langdon or Smith.

Fingers crossed 2 of Carroll, Philp, Cuningham (or trade) make a difference because Martin and Williamson don't look interested.

I don't dispute you bondi. It's just we are so weak for outside runners. You mention Smith from Geelong and Langdon from Melbourne. Two elite wingmen. Smith is 33 for heaven's sake.

I would even try Cottrell again who is in good form in the VFL.

I wonder what Phil Pinnell or Bryan Quirk, maybe David Glascott are doing these days. :smile:

FarmerBlue · **Joined:** Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am **Posts:** 1495

I like our defence and McDonald & McGovern make it better
In the guts Cripps Walsh Hewett Cerra Kennedy can be a great unit. Pittonet is vital to them. Stocker and/or Dow can help with some depth and more rotations
Up forward McKay Curnow & Silvagni look very good and are dangerous.

It's support to these I have the question marks. We need more improved contributions. LOB & Setterfield have been solid on the wings but need to do more. Carroll Kemp Cuningham Cottrell are other considerations. I like Durdin as a small forward as he has goal sense and speed. Owies & Fogarty are workers but need to have elite pressure and work rate or don't bring much. Fisher has been solid but needs to do more for us to be better. Martin has real ability but goes missing.

I hope we see Motlop soon as he has X Factor and Philp will give us speed and can kick goals. Honey another option when fit

Whoever we pick to support our core needs to do more. It's these players that need to make us better

Mickstar · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 7173

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Nothing changes.
Teddy wants Setters dropped on a weekly basis and Keogh re-appears with 20 negative posts after a loss.

Very true.

Setterfield was doing nothing even when we were winning. You disputing that?

Meanwhile we have guys like Dow in the VFL. Wing may not be his natural position but give him a go. Couldn't do any worse.

By the way, Setterfield was picked at 5 in his draft year. Maybe he wouldn't be getting games if not for that. :smile:

I'm not convinced Setterfield and LOB own the wings, and feel we need an upgrade on them. I think they will get better and I don't want Dow on a wing either. Period.

I've watched Dow's games in the reserves and still think he's lazy after the clearance, like his job is done.
I think Dow on a wing would be a disaster. He doesn't run defensively, and doesn't hunt the ball. He waits for a ball up or centre bounce to get close to the action as if its his cue to commit to a contest.
So the idea is sticking Dow on a wing for the sake of change?
2 wrongs don't make a right. IMO its a weak proposition teddy.

Dow can come in as an inside mid now that Cripps is out. He's an inside mid. I'm not sure if he will ever be a dominant mid, but he's an inside mid. Would like to see what he's got to offer in that role, now that he's supposedly in form.

We have seen Dow dominate in the reserves before and come in to play HF, and wing and failed. But when Teague gave him a (rare) go as an inside mid he went alright, but wasn't allowed to develop his game. He should not have been dropped after the Effendruggies game last year after he had 11 disposals in the first quarter. Teague made the wrong decision by the player and the club.

Setterfield was on the ground 90% of the game, and had 20 disposals vs GC at 70% efficiency, so 14 effective disposals.
I thought he was weak at the contest on the weekend.
I thought LOB was about the same.

We need to upgrade our wings if these 2 don't improve.

I dispute that Setterfield has been ineffective when we were winning.
He played 2 great, yes great, first halves in the first 2 rounds, then did well in the last Qtr vs Tigers but faded vs Dogs.
He was crap vs Hawks imo.

The wing is such an important position. Watch Isaac Smith play the position. Ed Langdon. Supreme runners and ball users, and they play important roles for their teams.
There's players building to challenge who might be able to play the wing position, not like Langdon or Smith.

Fingers crossed 2 of Carroll, Philp, Cuningham (or trade) make a difference because Martin and Williamson don't look interested.

I don't dispute you bondi. It's just we are so weak for outside runners. You mention Smith from Geelong and Langdon from Melbourne. Two elite wingmen. Smith is 33 for heaven's sake.

I would even try Cottrell again who is in good form in the VFL.

I wonder what Phil Pinnell or Bryan Quirk, maybe David Glascott are doing these days. :smile:

And don't forget Gary Crane . ................i agree again Ted , give Cottrel a go coz he has a go and he runs hard . And runs again . He runs to the contest always . And he sustains that run . Baffled as to why people want to write him off . Cottrel has a go , he puts in ,he's got jam tart .

CFC8795 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:29 pm

Wayne Blackwell, Phil Maylin?

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:48 pm

CFC8795 wrote:

Wayne Blackwell, Phil Maylin?

Scott Camporeale

Mick Young (RIP)

I loved watching Maylin play...and it wasn't for those ultra short tight shorts :sly:

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:56 pm

FarmerBlue wrote:

I like our defence and McDonald & McGovern make it better

What shits me with the MC is they knew McGovern was out for 4-5 weeks and needed a back up plan, if not Young. They decided to give the role to the stagnant lockdown defender Plowman.

Last year, on his return from injury Kemp was being developed as our intercept mark, and he was doing really well there. Some said it was a waste of talent given Marchbank would return.

A 3rd tall defender is an intercepting defender who can also attack the lines with leg speed. Kemp has all that.

Instead, Kemp is being developed in the forward line with a game plan that ignores Kemp, or he isn't presenting well enough. Maybe he isn't a KPF.

If McDonald is back from injury, he should take on the KPD role with Weitering and have Young do what he does well and become the intercept mark till Gov gets back. If not, can we please do some work conditioning Kemp for the back and forward role.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:57 pm

Gary Crane, god I loved him, the sort of player you felt you could see the heart thumping beneath the jumper, brave as they come, him and Quirk on the other - @#$%&! those were the days!

bondiblue · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:03 pm

dannyboy wrote:

Gary Crane, god I loved him, the sort of player you felt you could see the heart thumping beneath the jumper, brave as they come, him and Quirk on the other - @#$%&! those were the days!

The whole football world loved Gary Crane. Brave as they come.

Ian Robertson and Gary Crane were the first wingmen I saw at Carlton in 1968.

Then in '69 Bryan Quirk came along to join the best centreline in the league....imo

Phil Pinnel replaced Quirk in 1970

Those were the days my friend.......

FarmerBlue · **Joined:** Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am **Posts:** 1495

bondiblue wrote:

FarmerBlue wrote:

I like our defence and McDonald & McGovern make it better

What shits me with the MC is they knew McGovern was out for 4-5 weeks and needed a back up plan, if not Young. They decided to give the role to the stagnant lockdown defender Plowman.

Last year, on his return from injury Kemp was being developed as our intercept mark, and he was doing really well there. Some said it was a waste of talent given Marchbank would return.

A 3rd tall defender is an intercepting defender who can also attack the lines with leg speed. Kemp has all that.

Instead, Kemp is being developed in the forward line with a game plan that ignores Kemp, or he isn't presenting well enough. Maybe he isn't a KPF.

If McDonald is back from injury, he should take on the KPD role with Weitering and have Young do what he does well and become the intercept mark till Gov gets back. If not, can we please do some work conditioning Kemp for the back and forward role.

I think Kemp is a winger/midfielder. I don't understand what they are doing with him.

As for defence while McGovern is out why not play Parks? That's what he was recruited for.

With Plowman I never thought he was a lock down defender. Looks better when he is up the ground. Running HB or Wing is his go. Just my take

Agro jr · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 3:04 pm **Posts:** 1007

Mickstar wrote:

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

Teddy Hopkins wrote:

Blue Vain wrote:

Nothing changes.
Teddy wants Setters dropped on a weekly basis and Keogh re-appears with 20 negative posts after a loss.

Very true.

Setterfield was doing nothing even when we were winning. You disputing that?

Meanwhile we have guys like Dow in the VFL. Wing may not be his natural position but give him a go. Couldn't do any worse.

By the way, Setterfield was picked at 5 in his draft year. Maybe he wouldn't be getting games if not for that. :smile:

I'm not convinced Setterfield and LOB own the wings, and feel we need an upgrade on them. I think they will get better and I don't want Dow on a wing either. Period.

I've watched Dow's games in the reserves and still think he's lazy after the clearance, like his job is done.
I think Dow on a wing would be a disaster. He doesn't run defensively, and doesn't hunt the ball. He waits for a ball up or centre bounce to get close to the action as if its his cue to commit to a contest.
So the idea is sticking Dow on a wing for the sake of change?
2 wrongs don't make a right. IMO its a weak proposition teddy.

Dow can come in as an inside mid now that Cripps is out. He's an inside mid. I'm not sure if he will ever be a dominant mid, but he's an inside mid. Would like to see what he's got to offer in that role, now that he's supposedly in form.

We have seen Dow dominate in the reserves before and come in to play HF, and wing and failed. But when Teague gave him a (rare) go as an inside mid he went alright, but wasn't allowed to develop his game. He should not have been dropped after the Effendruggies game last year after he had 11 disposals in the first quarter. Teague made the wrong decision by the player and the club.

Setterfield was on the ground 90% of the game, and had 20 disposals vs GC at 70% efficiency, so 14 effective disposals.
I thought he was weak at the contest on the weekend.
I thought LOB was about the same.

We need to upgrade our wings if these 2 don't improve.

I dispute that Setterfield has been ineffective when we were winning.
He played 2 great, yes great, first halves in the first 2 rounds, then did well in the last Qtr vs Tigers but faded vs Dogs.
He was crap vs Hawks imo.

The wing is such an important position. Watch Isaac Smith play the position. Ed Langdon. Supreme runners and ball users, and they play important roles for their teams.
There's players building to challenge who might be able to play the wing position, not like Langdon or Smith.

Fingers crossed 2 of Carroll, Philp, Cuningham (or trade) make a difference because Martin and Williamson don't look interested.

I don't dispute you bondi. It's just we are so weak for outside runners. You mention Smith from Geelong and Langdon from Melbourne. Two elite wingmen. Smith is 33 for heaven's sake.

I would even try Cottrell again who is in good form in the VFL.

I wonder what Phil Pinnell or Bryan Quirk, maybe David Glascott are doing these days. :smile:

And don't forget Gary Crane . ................i agree again Ted , give Cottrel a go coz he has a go and he runs hard . And runs again . He runs to the contest always . And he sustains that run . Baffled as to why people want to write him off . Cottrel has a go , he puts in ,he's got jam tart .

Cottrell does run hard to the contest, but by the time he gets there the ball is gone.

So he runs to the next one, same problem.

Guy is a bit of an idiot unfortunately. Has an elite tank no doubt, which only helps him sustain the running patterns of a headless chook.

Mickstar · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 7173

Jeeezus , the Apple don't drop far from the tree.............Baaang , cop that Mick . Diplomacy and tact aint part of the Agro family DNA . Still , despite what you say Junior , no way known am i writing him off yet . Our side is crying out for run , any sort of run , i don't care , so long as they run Phewwwww !

AGRO · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:24 pm

bondiblue wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

Gary Crane, god I loved him, the sort of player you felt you could see the heart thumping beneath the jumper, brave as they come, him and Quirk on the other - @#$%&! those were the days!

The whole football world loved Gary Crane. Brave as they come.

Ian Robertson and Gary Crane were the first wingmen I saw at Carlton in 1968.

Then in '69 Bryan Quirk came along to join the best centreline in the league....imo

Phil Pinnel replaced Quirk in 1970

Those were the days my friend.......

Unfortunately Robertson Crane and Quirk, were dissed by the Carlton hating journos of the time Tom Prior and Alf Brown and their Barrot Clay Bourke lovefest :roll:

Mickstar · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 7173

AGRO wrote:

bondiblue wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

Gary Crane, god I loved him, the sort of player you felt you could see the heart thumping beneath the jumper, brave as they come, him and Quirk on the other - @#$%&! those were the days!

The whole football world loved Gary Crane. Brave as they come.

Ian Robertson and Gary Crane were the first wingmen I saw at Carlton in 1968.

Then in '69 Bryan Quirk came along to join the best centreline in the league....imo

Phil Pinnel replaced Quirk in 1970

Those were the days my friend.......

Unfortunately Robertson Crane and Quirk, were dissed by the Carlton hating journos of the time Tom Prior and Alf Brown and their Barrot Clay Bourke lovefest :roll:

Yeah , not to mention Brian Hansen from the anything but the Truth . Our trio more than held there own against the media darling at the time . In fact we may have shaded the in our clashes . And Robertson was just as good a kick of the football as Barrot .

PS...................see the young pethy is following in your footsteps Aggs , straight to the point , take it or leave it .

GWS · **Posted:** Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:33 pm

I’d take Frank Marchesani if he was playing against us...

Rd 4: Gold Coast v Carlton (post match discussion)

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