Yeah, but in getting Judd we gave up one of the great modern era KPPs just as his career was getting underway.
Not so sure we even won that deal, let alone can claim it as example of the virtues of trading over drafting.

Just on this point only, if I remember correctly Hawthorn drafted heavily and it wasn't until they were already premiers that they started to trade in more over drafting to keep the success going.
Richmond is in the same boat now.
Geelong had a massive influence from free hits of father sons and still have not won a premiership since they started trading more than drafting (could change this year but my money is on Richmond).

None of these clubs had taken the trading over drafting stance from 16th on the ladder either. As the article stated, we seem to be pulling the trigger a little early, especially with the loss of Cogs as a free hit and it's all about the DVI when trading as the stats show and what we see. And as you've put it, they are destination clubs and no matter what spin you want to put on our upcoming talent, we are not a destination club yet. We're a club with potential. A solid season next year without sacrificing acquiring young talent to keep us going in years to come, will change things for us next trade period.

Also, it's interesting to know that no one from our 2017 draft has any AFLCA votes this year (Dow & O'brien) and we only have 1 vote from our traded players. You could pretty much say that's a bust year at the moment. Let's hope the players left on the list can change that next season, especially TDK. Garlett, Schumacher, Shaw & Lobbe are gone already.

He does make a good point that the supporters and possibly the club are getting ahead of ourselves. Even with our wins in the second half we are not a top 8 team yet in developed talent or experienced players in the right age bracket. As per below comment.

I don’t think it’s a depth issue. Setterfield could step up next year having shown glimpses this year in his first season without injury.

It’s midfielder age issue. Everyone who could is 21 and under all still with question marks. Setterfield, Dow, Fisher, Kennedy, Stocker, LOB. I think we shouldn’t over rate the pick and futures potential if we can get a known quantity.

I have no issue with using the pick if there is a Rozee like player available. A player that can play forward and make an immediate impact. But there definitely seems to be less people claiming this is a quality draft. So at this stage of the cycle betting on more kids is a diminishing return. Known quantities suits us better. And for a mid there’s three years of development before he is making a meaningful contribution. That’s what history suggests.

We have gone from hitting the draft hard because we needed to fill every line on the field with players to freeing up salary cap to bring in parts of the jigsaw. Now we have cash and expendable draft picks to find those jigsaw pieces. A 23-27yo ready to go mid who has a balanced inside outside game or a goal kicking/high assist forward in the same age group. If it takes selling pick 8 to get that then we should do it.

Of course, we don’t want another McLean or Jaksch situation, but I think the group in charge this time won’t panic because the foundation is there, so they don’t have to reach. Which is how you get Boekhorst.

All fair points providing there is a mid available that wants to come to us and ticks all the right boxes. So far we don’t really have any good potentials other than the speculation on Wines. And unless he has had enough of the club or they of him, I can’t see him coming to us as Port are a team closer to finals.
Time will tell I guess. Fingers crossed as I rate him.

Hey....

i used to have a lot of sex with Cody Weightman's
mum...we were together for three years...!

his father's a Colon-Woods supporter...(hates me
because i'm of ethnic origin...and had sex with
his wife...in that order)...!

i was chatting with her recently...and we joked
about Cody coming to Carlton...it'll drive his
old man nuts...beautiful...!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Agree with this.
That’s why I think we were going so hard at Coniglio.
And why now Papley is an absolute priority.
Jack Martin sounds nice but I have big question marks over him - mainly b/c, as you state we should be going for known quantities and Martin is not that IMO. Has lots of potential but not yet a known quantity.

(Btw, it was interesting to hear Sam Maclure say today that in the end, Coniglio was choosing only between us and GWS; both offering 7yrs but us offering $300k per year more.

I re-watched the Adelaide game last night. (Yes, I have no life )
The pick up by Setterfield that sent the crowd into a frenzy was unbelievable. For a player of his height, i believe his agility is absolutely elite. Watch him tackle players. He's similar to Cyril Rioli in that his movements mirror the player with the ball so they can't get past him. Get a full pre-season into him and I'd expect him to step up significantly next season. Great hands, great agility and excellent footy smarts.
He just needs some continuity in his footy and he'll be a serious player for us.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Effectively Judd cost us 2 First rounders.

The culture of the club was stuffed and I can't recall any draftees to thrive in the environment, including the No 1 picks, unless they prove that the draft aint the panacea.

Carlton needed Judd for our emotional nourishment (Supporters and club employees) and bring some professionalism and a benchmark for the young draftees to targetand learn from.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Funniest post I've read on here.....by a long shot.

100%

I was just relieved and happy he got so many games in this year - more than I expected.

Article makes valid points but is waaaay off track using AFLCA votes to assess our youth. It make as much sense as using brownlow votes to judge our backline.

I found his point a little conflicting in that the list is unbalanced with too much youth (<23yo) and are lacking in mature players in the 24-28yo bracket and yet his advice to Carlton is to go to the draft for another kid

Personally by all commentry this year is a shallow draft and we have set ourselves up for trading out this year for some mature players. If we did this and keep our first round of next years draft I am more than happy with the strategy

I think your talking crap of nearly the highest order.
There were plenty of times he fumbled as well.
He has good hands and knows how to position himself on the outside to get the pill.
But he is slow and is an average kick and he doesn't get his own pill. I can see Setterfield playing a spare parts roll playing defence if we are deficient in height or going forward if need be.
But you and a few others reckon he is going to be an absolute superstar.
I reckon you have got your hand on it

thanks coach.

Whilst we can't argue with the numbers it's just an opinion piece from a Nth Melb supporter.

He has no idea where we are at re development. I don't agree with any of his opinions.

The facts are facts but his opinions are baseless and he contradicts himself. Sells himself sort if he is a he and not a she- he.

Some of he posts thereafter are in agreement with him, based on what?

No team has ever stripped back a list as much as we have.
There's no precedence.

We have filled the list with predominantly kids. Fact. why?
It's a total rebuild. Not all of them will make it.
That's what you get from the draft: hits and misses.
We have enough kids who will make it.

The authors numbers suggest we have a shortage of players age 24-26.
These are the next leaders after the veterans retire. Hence the targets for 2019 & 2020.

Of course none of the premiership teams Hawks Tigers and Cats targeted quality players for picks from 16th. Hawks got lucky in 2008, but they went to the draft since 2002.
None though were stripped back to almost ground zero.

This is a new model.
Carlton knew it would bottom out for years on end with this approach.
That was the cost. The benefit was high end picks. Heaps of them.
It's a form of tanking. The AFL couldn't stop us doing that.
It was the reason the AFL couldn't justify giving us a Priority Pick.

The time is not just now, but next year and the year after just as SOS planned to trade to get quality players on the list to fill the age bracket we are short of. Author noes this plan.

The author suggest if we target players through trade we will be trouble in 5 years time. He bases this on the fact we missed out on Cogs. Yeah right. He didn't mention how we refused to give our picks away as planned for Shiel but we didn't want to miss out on Walsh in the super draft. Author is a year behind our plan. This year is not a superdraft. Have a look at the names he puts forward for pick 8.

How old will all the 19-23yo players be in 5 years? Answer is old enough to lead the next premiership group. Now is the time to add players of quality having not been prepared to pay the price for Shiel.

No one is taking about importing fringe players for our picks.
We missed on Cogs as a FA. Big deal. It was never a sure bet.
I'm sure SOS hedged his bets and there is at least 20 quality targets and a lot of ways to get 3-4 much needed players to fill our gaps.

There's FAs in 2019
There's FAs in 2020
There's FAs in 2021.
That's good if we are a destination club. Not good if we are not.
Add quality players to fill gaps and we will play finals in 2020.
If we can get them now for picksvto make us better then do it.

SOS will be putting players up for trade.
With 3-4 new players coming onboard there's plenty of pressure on spots.
There's plenty of ways to skin this cat.
There is a plan and we've all known it for 4 years.

Just 1 quality mid and 1 quality forward is all it takes to change our 2020 fortunes.
The author alluded to this. That's what is happening for the next 6 weeks.If not, we go to he draft with pick 8 for....a hit or miss player in a shallow draft.

I'm excited with what I saw with he Teague train and some of the players' improvements let alone small hints of their class, and I'm even more excited with some of the names we are targeting and hope to God we get 2 good ones with the picks of value we have, to trade, from 2019 and 2020 drafts and if we have to trade a player or 2 that fits our plan so be it.

I've heard of 2 quality players we may trade, and whilst I love them and what they bring, if they need to be sacrificed along with picks to make us stronger and puts us closer to our end goal # 17, 18, 19....so be it.

Let's hope we snag a couple quality players to fill a couple short term gaps.
Go for it SOS.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Setterfield has much chance of making it as any 21yo.
His career has just started.

You sound like Sinbad and his views on Cripps.
Miles too early to shoot him down.
You're the one who needs he reality check.

No one knows ho is going to make it.
You look for signs. he's shown them.
He got ripped off or a Rising Star nomination from hat performance BV is referring to.

It was an amazing goal. Name was Setterfield.
You can't take hat away from him. I saw it too.
I'm sure he gained a lot of confidence from that game an the season, because he's it the skills to become a great player. Time will tell.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Thats disappointing because your opinion is very important me.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Let's go back in time for a minute.
SOS's grand plan was to recruit young talent in the first 3 years and then in the 4 th year trade away picks for mature talent then in the fifth year because we have paid under the salary cap we have money to pay superstars with restricted free agency.

I laugh when coaches are sacked and at the grand press conference all the old lines are trotted
out more than once like" we are constantly reviewing all areas of the football club".

Clearly list management isn't one of them. Imo they should of reviewed it after the third year.
SOSs first two drafts were good but his last 2 look like shit at the moment. I grant the sugarcoaters the obvious that you can't put the line through youngsters too early but Dow and O' Brien look ordinary.
Kennedy played some good footy up forward but he was brought to the club as an inside mid. He is one of the slowest players I have seen at AFL level. DeKoning needs to show something at senior level next year.
The main reason Teague had success after Bolton left was because he stuck Murphy and Curnow in the guts. There not going to be there more much longer. Curnow gives 100% but if he is one of your gun mids your in trouble. He doesn't hurt the opposition enough. O.Brien, Sps, Fisher, Dow are all so small in body.
You can't bank on the guys Silvangi drafted to develop based on what they showed in 2017 not to mention the woeful performance of the team in 2018.
Imo they should have waited a year before trading away multiple picks to get mature talent

Any Carlton supporter who was happy with McGovern this year is dreaming. The fact he"let himself blow out a bit" is a further embarrasment. He cost us 3 picks or if you like McAdam and pick 13 which could of been used to get Stocker anyway instead of now having as a best case scenario pick 8 in this years draft.
Setterfield is overrated by many on this site. I'm entitled to an opinion of him as a footballer. We don't have a second round pick in this years draft because of that trade
Fasolo. No brainer. A complete @#$%&! up.
Newman was the best of the four and only cost us a fourth rounder in this years draft.
Unlike the previous 4 drafts Sos hasn't got a lot to play with banking on the spare dollars to lure a star with restricted free agency.
Good on Cogs to knock back the extra 2 million . Martin is overrated. Doesn't work hard enough.
To get Papley SOs will have to trade some of next years pick to get him. What is left to pick from here. Ellis. Oh and I love Eddie but getting Betts at 34 would be a backward step.

The recruiting process has been too quick when it comes to wanting success my opinion.

Of course free agency can work the other way. In 4 years time if they have space in the cap how much will Geelong offer a Jan Juc boy in Charlie Curnow. We need success in the next 4 years otherwise the kids we recruited are more likely to leave.

And don't forget you Bolton haters. Bolts record wasn't bad in his first 2 years. Teague will still be in the honeymoon phase

we should have a section on this forum called

Talking Les Miserables

or

Talking The Same Shit Over and Over again

33 but hey what’s 4 years between friends.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

While I don’t agree with everything you posted, you do have some valid points.

Interesting post.