All fine words Mr S.....

But when Ratts was at the helm it was ALL his fault with a list that was supposedly one the most talented in the league.

Within one pre-season (less 2 weeks for Micks book tour) you went from blaming the coach to blaming players and Sticks.

And that was after we supposedly got the best coach in the business.

So which is it Mr S?

It has always been a problem with the players/team, and lack of genuine natural leadership.

Professional leadership skills can be taught and refined into young sports people. Natural leadership cannot. They are worth their weight in gold. Hopefully a club can have one maybe two of these natural leaders. They don't necessarily end up as captain or even in the leadership group, but others follow them sometimes sub consciously.

Our club had a continuous thread of player leadership from the mid 1960s to 2004 where the Pagan/Elshaugh regime inserted the terminal spear of discontinuity. Not deliberately I might add. But the Pagan quest for finals success without a finals list, was based upon short term decisions. A big mistake in hindsight.... rebuilding with youth, and thinking outside the box was the way to go. Instead we went with a half arsed short term approach that resulted in failure anyway, but which produced serious long term problems for the club.

We haven't really recovered. I thought for a moment there in 2011 that we may have turned the corner with out work rate (even the 2011 premiers the cats, described Carlton as the hardest working team they faced Collingwood as the best prepared and having the best structures)

(Betts had the best defensive game of all the AFL's forwards in the past 2 or 3 years and he kicked goals too - and we couldn't keep him. Players wouldn't take a cut to try to keep him. Swann never tried. A big mistake in my view. I wonder what the combined salaries of Judd, Carrazzo, Daisy and Waite are? Close to 3 million a year I reckon. Couldn't trim $150k to keep Betts?)

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

yes , i do think the pinnacle of ratts career was 2011.
but we still stumbled.. and we peaked then.
he was talented as a coach.. he was a waste of a few years...

2012 we went backwards and fell off the cliff

its not about one season.. or minor increments.. its about sustainability
i do believe we lost the plot at 2012 ... and i believe ratts made too many massive mistakes that we are still paying for now
terrible appointment
poor planner
horrible thinker
and set us up for panic moves to stabilise his mistake.

will pay for that for another decade.

cause and effect


but it was a culture problem... ratten wouldnt have ever been chosen as head coach at any other afl club.
only at carlton....
a guy like sticks wouldnt be afl president at any other club .. only at us.

again poor planner.. horrible thinker
ultimately the club belongs to us.. and we allowed for this to happen.
we followed the pied piper like those children.....
To paraphrase a "dead philiosopher" as Kouta here would say... "you deserve the leaders you have"...
And that is why the dead philosophers are still around .. even after they stopped breathing and Kouta if u go on his %ers .. hes wrong.

dead philosophers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kouta from tc

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No doubt mr S, that rats had short comings. Excellent assistant coach probably in the midfield or defense, but just didn't have the overall strengths to make it as a senior coach. And not smart enough to appoint assistants that could cover his weaknesses, like Sheedy did

And when port set up a committee that included Parkin to find a senior coach, rats was their second choice. A good move by port to appoint hinkley.

We could have done a similar thing but fell back into our old habits of taking a cheque book out and going after Malthouse or Roos.

It will be interesting to see of melbourne overtake us under Roos. Even if they match our wins this year it says something
Doesn't it mr S

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

yes says u have to have a total clear out of a club from top to bottom.
its what port and melbourne did.
How do you know ratts was second choice.. you saw a podium the winner and the two place getters stood on?
i just saw ratts scurrying off and making some kind of comment after his second round interview that port are crap and he wouldnt want that job... nobody would

stupid clubs in a weak state make appointments and think that will change the landscape as they stay there for a decade themselves .. %es shoing they usually bugger things up
They always wanna try and fix things.... but they always dig a bigger and bigger hole...
and yet.. they really do believe they can fix everything themselves
take number 1,473 and action!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Parko, maybe with the wisdom of hindsight from previous stints, was one who knew he needed a decent structure behind him. Back when we had some idea what we were doing and Sydney didn't (how times have changed!) he turned down the Sydney job when their clueless (Willesee) board thought they were ready for a tilt at the flag (not by a long shot) and took the Carlton job because Jack said we were on the way down and needed a team rebuild of sorts (not the board, of course, but at least it was a realistic appraisal of the team in 1990). Granted we had some champions on the list, but Parko responded to a board that had a realistic view (although the '95 flag might have gone to Jack's head). Maybe we were just lucky that a top coach in his prime was somehow unemployed at the time, but it seems to be the last time we got it right.

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'People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.'
Soren Kierkegaard

What's that quote about .............'Cleaning up your own backyard'

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/woolw ... 35ec8.html

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Ethics aren't really a consideration for our hierarchy.

So our recruiting and list management is OK then.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

of course its OK

problem is, OK doesn't win you flags, and often "OK" doesn't even get you into the finals

It must A1, spot on, world class, cutting edge to make it in this business

and lets face it, its a business now

and we have fallen behind the best

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

_________________
Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

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Vice President, International Extreme Sarcasm Society (IESS)

There has been the GC/GWS raid on talent in that time

That is true, however here's data on NRS nominations since Garlett got his in 2010

Adelaide - Talia Shaw Kerridge Crouch Laird
Brisbane - Beams Golby Mayes
Carlton -
Collingwood - Fasolo Sinclair Williams Grundy
Essendon* - Heppell Carlisle
Fremantle - Morabito Z Clarke
Geelong - Duncan Menzel Christensen Motlop Horlin-Smith
Gold Coast - Matera Z Smith D Swallow McKenzie Caddy O'Meara Nicholls
GWS - Cameron Bugg Coniglio Shiel Greene Treloar Smith Tyson Whitfield Tomlinson Williams
Hawthorn - Savage Breust Anderson Hill
Melbourne - Gysberts Blease McDonald Blease Viney
North Melbourne - Wright Mullett
Port Adelaide - Trengove Pittard Wingard Wines Neade
Richmond - Conca Batchelor Grimes Ellis Vlastuin
St Kilda - Steven Siposs Dunstan
Sydney - Reid Mitchell
WCE - Shuey Darling Gaff
WBD - Dahlhaus Jones Wallis Macrae Talia

Obviously they aren't everything because as you can see some players got nominations who aren't much chop - someone like Liberatore missed out altogether (!)

You can't just look at the recruiting in isolation either - there is also the development/coaching/mentoring side of things

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Edited for accuracy.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

..I think Mathieson can jam it..

..hows that..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Jake Batchelor got a NRS nomination? And Sam Blease? And Sam Wright? There are a number of players on that list that have obviously gone backwards since their nominations.

Not withstanding, it would be nice if we had some names on that list.

If the Menz wasn't he sub all the time he'd be a shot. Graham would be a chance if he got a full game.

More interesting than your straw man?

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Carrazzo has played 179 games and is most definitely still eligible and still hasn't been nominated. Not sure how seriously you can take the NRS.

Dino you are alot like the man in these photos. He keeps popping up but no knows who he is or why.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

yep. Just like to know if we are doing anything about it?

If not we are in for a very long drought.

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#NewBlues beginning 25th August 2015