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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:39 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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jim wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
jim wrote:
B: Tuohy, Jamison, White
HB: Walker, Rowe, Scotland
C: Armfield, Murphy, Gibbs
HF: Menzel, Henderson, Garlett
F: Betts, Waite, Casboult
Foll: Warnock, Judd, Carrazzo
I/C: Bell, Cachia, McLean, Robinson



Jim, think you've nailed it on several levels.

Mobile, smart forward line with multiple options. They will draw ball to right spots. Hendo and Waite can rotate between CHF and FF equally.

Buckley or even Collins may have to replace Betts.

Warnock can do 80% of ruck. When resting on bench Casboult rucks and we can change our forward structure.

Really like Rowe at CHB. IMO it's his position. Can play on bigger players and will allow Jamo & Whiet to take 2nd and 3rd talls.

Flexibility, Rowe, White, Waite, Henderson can all play forward or back if needed.

Lots of midfield rotations and lots of run and spread and still enough hard ball winning ability.

:thumbsup:



And interestingly no Kruizer (is this because of injury or omission)
Just wanted to go with one ruckman for best balance and Warnock's the fittest of the group at present. Both Kreuzer and Warnock are "all game" ruckman. Great in their position, useless anywhere else hence one is enough. Kreuzer thrived as the near lone ruckman late last year and is terrific around the ground. Terrible when pidgeon-holed in a position. With 2 rucks he will spend alot of that time pidgeon-holed killing his value. Give that then it's fitness for now the reason I've left him out. Hence just as easy to 2nd ruck Casboult to give the odd relief, ala Leigh Brown, and IMO would work well with Waite and Henderson, especially without the pressure of being a key forward. If that's the role of the 2nd ruck we may as well pick the bloke who can best play forward.


Fair enough Jim..I agree with your assessment above, what if both Kruiz and Warnock were both equally Fit, what would you do?


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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teknodeejay wrote:
All these calls to bring in Menzel, yet from what you read in the VFL reports he'd be getting a game based on potential alone, not what he has displayed so far. He's on his way, but hasn't warranted selection.

I'm just not sure it would be the best move. Rapt for him if he gets a gig though and am sure he'll relish it.

Also, some suggestions of only having Warnock in the game. This is impossible. If you have more than one ruck, you have to have two. Casboult isn't any good in the ruck so if you only have Warnock, who does it when he's resting? Bring in Rowe? Not sure that's going to happen.

I believe we'll see the following outs:

Out - Ellard, Betts, Yarran (all given), Jamison if he's too sore
In - Waite, Gibbs, Buckley (if Menzel isn't ready to be debuted), Bell

I don't believe we've seen the last of Hampson, Warnock and Kreuzer in the same side. I expect Kreuzer to go to the backline if Jamison is out (with Simon White and Henderson).


Two things...

Menzel has played very good footy for the NBs and with Yarran and Betts out (a change to my side above of course) we can give him a go and I'd say he is ready for a crack. Called rewarding form.

Secondly, you don't need two ruckman. One and relief is plenty. Kreuzer play very well late last year rucking 85% of the game. Gave him freedom around the ground to do his best work. Casboult certainly can ruck adequately enough, we've seen that, and that's all that's needed given it's just 10-15% of the game. He provides marking around the ground and well as aggression at the player and the ball smashing a few bodies. Plus he's certainly the best of them up forward. As they Warnock and Kreuzer are both no.1 ruckman, and next to useless when no,t means we have two ruckmen for 50% of the game that will provide no value. Two rucks are ok if you could interchange them off the bench but we don't have that luxury anymore.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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DenimUndies wrote:
jim wrote:
DenimUndies wrote:
ThePsychologist wrote:
jim wrote:
B: Tuohy, Jamison, White
HB: Walker, Rowe, Scotland
C: Armfield, Murphy, Gibbs
HF: Menzel, Henderson, Garlett
F: Betts, Waite, Casboult
Foll: Warnock, Judd, Carrazzo
I/C: Bell, Cachia, McLean, Robinson



Jim, think you've nailed it on several levels.

Mobile, smart forward line with multiple options. They will draw ball to right spots. Hendo and Waite can rotate between CHF and FF equally.

Buckley or even Collins may have to replace Betts.

Warnock can do 80% of ruck. When resting on bench Casboult rucks and we can change our forward structure.

Really like Rowe at CHB. IMO it's his position. Can play on bigger players and will allow Jamo & Whiet to take 2nd and 3rd talls.

Flexibility, Rowe, White, Waite, Henderson can all play forward or back if needed.

Lots of midfield rotations and lots of run and spread and still enough hard ball winning ability.

:thumbsup:



And interestingly no Kruizer (is this because of injury or omission)
Just wanted to go with one ruckman for best balance and Warnock's the fittest of the group at present. Both Kreuzer and Warnock are "all game" ruckman. Great in their position, useless anywhere else hence one is enough. Kreuzer thrived as the near lone ruckman late last year and is terrific around the ground. Terrible when pidgeon-holed in a position. With 2 rucks he will spend alot of that time pidgeon-holed killing his value. Give that then it's fitness for now the reason I've left him out. Hence just as easy to 2nd ruck Casboult to give the odd relief, ala Leigh Brown, and IMO would work well with Waite and Henderson, especially without the pressure of being a key forward. If that's the role of the 2nd ruck we may as well pick the bloke who can best play forward.


Fair enough Jim..I agree with your assessment above, what if both Kruiz and Warnock were both equally Fit, what would you do?
Something only form would guide down the track. Looking to the great tap ruckman or the ruckman who would do very well with the freedom of running around the ground like another mid in a way. Could well go with the latter. Means someone would be unlucky but when you're talking "balance" you can't play them all. If you do you're worse off.

I have tossed up the pros and cons of playing Kreuzer as an old style ruck rover. On one hands not sure how it would afftect our greatest strength of speed and he could get run off. On the other hand he'll provide strength in the clinches, and be very handy floating back in defence and very dangerous to his opponent floating forward. Have to think about that one more as it could work well or backfire.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:19 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Interesting comments by MM on CCTV today.

Forward line structure needs to be adjusted as not kicking enough goals over last few weeks and need more ball winners and looking to bring in a ball winner and drop a tagger.

Fairly happy with defence.

Said these are the issues to be discussed at Match Committee this week.

*Paul Roos also questioned us trying to play 3 "Genuine" ruckman in one line up!


Given those comments we may well look at:

Out: Betts Yarran Ellard Jamison Hampson Curnow

In: Bell Gibbs Carrazzo Menzel Waite Laidler

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Id let Menzel play ressies abit longer....
he hast done the full pre season and if he isnt playing 100 minutes he isnt adding to his tank

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Synbad wrote:
Id let Menzel play ressies abit longer....
he hast done the full pre season and if he isnt playing 100 minutes he isnt adding to his tank


finally - agree.


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Id let Menzel play ressies abit longer....
he hast done the full pre season and if he isnt playing 100 minutes he isnt adding to his tank


finally - agree.



Its ok.. you dont need to.. its unimportant to have my stuff ratified by you Surrey

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:52 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Good teams have stars who are leaders.
When the team is challenged these genuine stars act like leaders and step up.

Stars are never sleeping!!!

So far we only have had a couple or three who have consistently not gone to sleep when the going was good or not.

Walker McLean and Armfield... slowly being joined by guys like Henderson/Garlett ....

But we do need the Judds/Murphys/Robbos to really step up when were challenged and show some leadership for the others to follow into that slipstream..

a handful of guys is not enough!!!...

Weve got to stick together out on that field.!!!...no weak links.. no guys not chasing and hussling and some hardness at the conest!!

We will be tested by Port...!!.. we are putting ourselves into this position.. and we must FIGHT as a group through it..
But the frontliners must lead the way.. and the rest need to do their bit!!!

Half a dozen guys doing everything they can week in week out is not enough!!!... soone ror later the tone of the group will dictate to them to let go of caring also.

Need more leaders out in the middle...on the field .. in the heat of battle...!!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Maybe we need to add Duigan, Bell, Rowe, Casboult to the side to get a bit of bulk and physicality to our side?

These guys have a physical presence. At the moment we lack that trait.

Tuohy on the ball may help as well.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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You need strength speed agility and skill with want to succeed and sacrifice in equal parts.
Youd get 2 of those components with those guys but you wont necessarily have a balance.

You look at Geelong they have all of those in equal parts.They lacked speed but they addressed it.
Its what they seek out
Its how they execute
Its what defines them now

Ablett got hamered by his team mates ... he was told he was only being half hearted and he could be the best player in the comp if he ramped it out.
He did and he was and still is even if he is at a team full of kids.

Selwood early in his captaincy was rubbed out and again he got the treatment from his peers.
Stevie Johnson the skillful one...was dropped and even up for trade.

All of this adds to their aura and preparation as a team and club...and helps bring flags!!!

Geelong dont put up with weakness...!!!

You need it all!!!,, not just some of it..!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Oh there was a time when they were weak and flaky.. and dishonest with themselves and one another... on the ground

But at the top they were anything but that and sorted that problem out with the players .

They havent looked back since.

Nor have they stopped to rest on their past... theyre still hungry!!!

Whats to stop Selwood from winning FIVE flags by the time his career is up???

He has the appetite to do something in the modern era people thought would be impossible.....
but it doesnt come by not being committed!!!

Port will come at us this weekend!!!...

KILL THEM!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Synbad wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Id let Menzel play ressies abit longer....
he hast done the full pre season and if he isnt playing 100 minutes he isnt adding to his tank


finally - agree.



Its ok.. you dont need to.. its unimportant to have my stuff ratified by you Surrey


What's important is that you didn't “waffle on about nothing in particular” but made your point clear and concise.
Unimportant has nothing to do with it unless you want to debate yourself. Hang on....


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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That thesaurus studying has not improved a thing.

Go learn Socrates and his Elenctic method

here for starters..

Quote:
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, Socratic irony, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. It is a dialectical method, often involving an oppositional discussion in which the defense of one point of view is pitted against the defense of another; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, thus strengthening the inquirer's own point.


Much more helpful.....not only in footy... but also life...

:thumbsup:

Thesaurus pftttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

I reckon Rhino in here is also a disciple of the method....

The club needs some on its board!!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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No thesaurus would help trying to filter and dissect that rubbish. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:11 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
No thesaurus would help trying to filter and dissect that rubbish. :lol:

See this is where you have no clue about so much surrey.

A thesaurus is full of synonyms ... you would be getting what i tell you but with different words to the ones im using......message the same

So what would be the point of reading your thesaurus ???...

Ok wait...!!!look up the word "synonym"

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: please stop your killing me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Hilarious, you've both cracked me up :lol: , sitting here writing a boring paper and haven't been able to stop laughing at your posts for the last hour , lovin it lol, thanks so much to the both of you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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:lol: :lol: :lol: informative but good natured humor by the both of you... Excellent :lol:


Last edited by DenimUndies on Wed May 15, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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SurreyBlue wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: please stop your killing me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Surrey im not "killing" you.... go check your thesaurus.... your thesaurus would say im " murdering" you!!! :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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:lol: :lol:


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