Pro - Gee Caz what are you being so positive about - I miss the 10 goal shellacings - far more exciting than last night's miserly 41 point win.

Pro - no matter how much we win by it will not be enough cos when we win the opposition is shite.

Pro - whenever we lose it will never be because the opposition played well but because Ratts has no game plan.

Pro - Its terrible when Juddy plays well cos that means we rely too much on him.

Pro - its terrible when Ratts adjusts the game plan cos that means we haven't got one.

Pro - its terrible that after years of being crap we are not a top four side already.

Pro - its terrible that we do play direct football and score quickly but not for a whole game.

Pro - its terrible how sometimes a player like Bower might sometimes make the mistake of going out wide when clearly if Ratts could coach his instructions would always be carried out perfectly by every single player.

Pro - it is shocking that Ratts clearly told the players to take the game on and play on and then some players went far too wide - it shows Ratts isn't getting his message across 100% of the time yet - I mean how much time does he need.

Pro - its shocking that we kicked 4.8 to 2 points in the second quarter when really that should have been 7 or even 8 to a 1 or 2 goal quarter - cos that shows Ratts is clueless cos he can't get even Fev kicking well - in fact it may just about prove that Ratts is killing Fev.


con - all my pros could be cons depending on how I want to see the situation.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yep Synners really hit a nerve with me too with the point about organic improvement.

There's no guarantees that talent bears fruit, but I'm certainly relieved at the strides taken by Bower, Hammer, Austin and Joseph this year. I'm sure the development program will bear fruit over time too.

The leap in team performance comes when the group understands their team plan, and their individual roles within it, as a matter of instinct. That comes with time, but the coaching and football dept plan must be clear as well.

you do realise that the same could be done to those that think last night was a great success...

umm... if you read my con - I think that might just be the point I am making

oh and when is a 41 point win not a 41 point win?

answer - never

or (just for you) when the piano falls on your head as you are leaving the ground.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Pros

We won...had to check, but yes we did


Cons

Another thread has become "are Sticks and Ratten shite or not"...both sides of the debate are to blame...yes all of you...all of you. Me included now

The cynical might think that the political games have already begun. I await the return of the sneaky leakers...can't wait

Youre allowed to think anything you like.. cynical or whatever....

Thats your perogative.
Im looking at out club structures and how that has filtered into whats happening on the field.
I might be too smart for myself.. but hey.. time will tell.. in the meantime ill just follow my hunch...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Take Judd out of that side... and try and re assess its development...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

but isn't that why we got him - to help with pour development, to make us a better team?

So now when we figure if we have improved we must discount Judd?

Then I agree with Melvey - should never have traded for him - he hinders our development.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Fisher and Setanta in our forward-line... we are definitely going places boys, plenty to look forward to.

watch out its raining pianos

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I LOVE that song..............!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

I think the most concerning thing is that we don't know how we want to play as a club.

One week we play fast, attacking and free flowing football, the next week were are overly defensive
One week we try to play with finesse and over use the ball, the next week we play direct and move it quickly
One week we play the flanks, the next we go straight up the middle
One week Fev is the main man, the next week we are trying to share it around
One week we are accountable, the next week we think its up to our opponents to chase us

I realize that each week our opponent is different, the ground is different, etc, but to me we seem to have no idea as to what sort of football we want to play.

Yes we are young, yes we are coming from a long way back, and yes we are getting better, but I agree that much of the improvement is organic, rather then educated. I hate to use other clubs as a model, but I'm going to anyway. When Knights took over Essendon*, he went in with the game plan of playing fast, exciting, attacking football, and even though they got smashed a couple of times, he stuck with it, recruited towards it, and made its clear that it was the way he wanted to play. Now whether that style of football is right or wrong, we don't appear to be developing a 'style' at all.

I think that with anything in life, you need to start with the finish line in mind. I'm not privy to what goes on behind the scenes, so I hope that I am wrong, but we appear to be going with the flow and waiting for things to work themselves out.

Well we could revert to playing the long kicking direct style that we did under Pagan. That worked really well for us and other teams struggled to work it out.

For mine it's mainly about the cattle, and while ours is improving it is not there yet. Stick a Nick Riweoldt at CHF and I'll give you a top 2 team and an obvious gameplan. We simply don't have that luxury. When our midefield breaks even or beats the opposition Fev and the other forwards like Fisher and Houlihan play well. When we get beaten in the midfiled our forwards look useless.

Against the better teams we need to get numbers behind the ball or we'll get smashed. That doesn't mean we're chopping and changing our gameplan, but that we're adapting it for the circumstances. When Murphy, Gibbs, Kruezer, Walker, Grigg etc are mid-20's then it will be us with the midfield strength and directing terms in relation to the gameplan. Until then chill out and enjoy the ride.

We didnt get him so he can carry us... i dont believe..
We dont even use him correctly.
But he is a fantastic player.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Great post BlueLife.

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There is no footy god

Judd is a dominant player, head and shoulders above the rest of the team. We struggle when he's off the ground.

I'm sure the entire club knows they'd be a worse team with Judd out. I agree he shouldn't be used as the battering ram, and I liked how he got free for some receives on Friday night. Most teams are more discliplined and defensive than WCE though.

Not a massive Fisher fan but regardless, right now Fish + Irish >>> Cloke + Wiggles.

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

The game has changed alot since 2005 when judd has a lot more space. Not alot of room to get free these days.
With his injuries and age he has also had to adjust his game. Similar to Voss all them years back.
I think he is preparing himself with being a more in and under player in mind these days. Adding weight and building up his core so he can stand in the tackles.

He is a gun and a forward thinker and is doing exactly what we got him for. Playing great footy.

He also speaks of our gameplan in interviews. I scoff when he does though because i am told by a bloke on the internet that we dont have a gameplan.

this is the comment I'm referring to

we recruited him for our development and now we must not include him when talking about our development? That is a separate issue from 'How to make the best use of Judd while helping with our development?'

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Every time Juddy touched he ball it resulted in a shot at goal.

Take away Juddy and we would have struggled to beat the Eagles.