We beat Melbourne because of 10 minutes of Judd.

We beat Collingwood because we watched a motivational video.

We beat West Coast because they gave us the game by playing rooly bad in one quarter.

We beat Fremantle because everyone does.

And you say you have more pride than the players?

Pride? You are a typing joke if that's how you account for our four wins for the season to date.

We'd just givin up 3 goals in a few minutes, to a team who has been widely noted to score heavily in patches, but thats ok is it? We were about to stop them and go on our own scoring spree?

We stemmed that by playing tempo. For the period we played tempo we outscored Geelong. We went into half-time only 13 points down. If we hadn't controlled possession we could have gone in 40 points down.

Playing tempo had nothing to do with us losing.

We lost because we're a young team still finding our way, under a coach who has less than a year to reprogram a list of players who suffered under Pagan for 5 years.

Read BV's post again...



Synbad, your problem isn't with us playing tempo footy. You've said yourself you believe it has its place, so I'm not sure why you can't see it never had a better place than with 10 mins to go in the 2nd quarter on Saturday night. I think you're just pissed off because it was successful.

It's much easier to see the logic in your other issues with the things we're not doing well....more specifically the way we're not working hard enough for each other, not providing blocks for Judd and freeing him up and not playing positively enough (when we're not controlling possession).

Focus on that.

Judd's best form this season was when Hadley was playing. He was the guy providing the blocks, freeing Judd up and getting his body over the footy in the clearances. We're missing him greatly. It would be great if one of our senior players decided to take on that responsibility and sacrifice himself for the better of the team.

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How was it succesful Brad??? (We lost and were thumped)

How do you know we could have been 40 points down?
If North had done that instead of putting their collective heads over the ball.. ran and played aggresively (Not passively) would it have been a success???

At one point Geelong looked like they were running away with it last night as well...



I think your assumption is laughable....

It was a massive mistake...!!!!

and tempo means stepping it up as well as down....

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and you do not do the same - please argue with sense, stones lead no where.

It now seems we are a broken spirited lot

gee and I thought we were a list that had been crap for years slowly beginning to get some respect back, you know playing some good footy in bursts, being more competitive (even with the best team of last year), developing the kids like Browne and The Kruise, etc.

I guess the last people who'll give us respect will be our own doomsdayers - and maybe thats just as it should be.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

So Ladley hey, some coach, hey....

and what, he's in his first seven or so games yeah?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Synbad would you concede that losing Bower left our defense in tatters?

To a simple person like myself it was a momentus turning point in the game. I played almost all my football as a backman and I rate them and a good ruckman ahead of most others on the field.

I look back at Carlton over the years and our defense was the biggest feature of our game - Sexton Macca SOS Doull Southby Jezza Dean even Manton (Essendon* was his bitch) - this list could go on for ever. Our forwards dont. We had potentially one of the greatest full forwards running around in Sticks but he played mostly at CHF.

I look at out list now and see potentially a very sturdy defense taking shape. Bower Walker Jamison Thornton Waite Army(premature but you gotta love that debut). Then you hear about Austin and Co. coming though the ranks and from a distant perspective things are looking positive.

We have a bloke called Setanta who has shown he play back on the big names yet our coach insists he is a foward. Ratts may come from the same school of thought on me as this one that backman are born not made and that the big fellas natural instinct is to attack hence he sees him as a forward (i disagree here in his assesment I think he is a backman but at least I can see where he may be coming from).

We had another bloke named Pagan (dont Piss.....) who threw the baby out with the bathwater when he culled our list. He left it berefit of experience etc. He culled it because he saw it as his way of cutting the cancer and stamping his authority. Did it work? @#$%&! no!

My overall point to you is have some patience - after all these bleak years we are showing signs - In the Pago years we saw almost nothing - now we can see a backline who believe in each other(I still have my heart in mouth when we switch deep in defense but it is starting to work). We still have blokes like Scotland who shouldnt be there in a role other than loose man setting up attacking moves but it is coming together.

We have not shown the ability to slow the play and toy with the opposition even remotely under Dennis yet in a short time under Ratts we can. Have some faith in him - give him at least the remainder of the year and if we finish 10 on 10 wins see it as a step forward not a step back by not getting a priority pick - our kids like 1AW need at least this not the continual losses and doubts in their own ability.

That's a very god point.

Here's how i look at it. Just say last year we appointed John Worsfold or Mark Williams who have an outsiders view and rate who is any good or no good. Would either of them play Simon Wiggins, Jordan Bannister, Ryan Houlahan or Adam Bentick..... me thinks not then why do we persist, for team moral?? if these guys can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen

From an outsiders point of view they would have culled this list. From the get go either of those coaches would have come is and said this is how it's going to be done.

It has been reported that Aisake O'hailpin is on the outer with the MC. How easy of a target young Aisake is. A weak attempt by Ratts to try get his point across by targeting a foreigner who might not be on the list come years end.

Why not prove a point or make an example with one of our more senior players, one of the senior players at the start of the year Ratts for us to go forward the improvement must come from these 100+ gamers not the young players.

Like i have always said Ratten is a yes man and his appointment was purely based on his ex team mates getting a gig and having some input where as Roos, Wosha or Choco would be i'm running the show here not you.

and this is simply a cloud shape, its pretty, fun to look at, but still, it drifts by and to another eye, its the shape of a clown or an elephant.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Get behind Ratten people, he'll be a very good coach. Trust him, believe in him and support him. You'll see.

Now all he has to do is fix our forward line.

Did you see the first few years of Ratten's playing career Melvey?

Before 1995 Ratten played 72 games over 5 years of pretty ordinary football.

In 1995 he played every game and won a best and fairest in a premiership team.

Bentick's now played 60 games in four and a half years.

Players do improve over the course of their careers but based on your logic Ratten would have been axed in 1994.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

pretty much the entire geelong team were shit 2 years ago. Even Ablett. Now they're all champions and Ablett credits his form to having 6 years in the system and being strong and fit enough to play in the midfield...its on the AFL website.

We've blooded so many kids already...how many kids do you want in the team at one time? Seriously. We already have 3 first year players in the team and a whole bunch from the draft of 2006 and 2005. We are already the youngest and most inexperienced team in the league as it is.

And you think we havnt blooded enough kids.

We'll get smashed every game and that wont do anything for their confidence or development now would it. Dont be stupid.

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Carlton Premiers '10

You can even tell just by the way Ratten handles himself at press conferences that he's a good coach. He's obviously got the footy smarts.

Im glad we have true carlton people at the club right now...champions like Ratten, Kernahan, Greg Williams and Craig Bradley helping out.

Carlton was always a club that bred and expected success and just so used to being winners...like Ratten said it will be good to get the old Carlton arrogance back.

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Carlton Premiers '10

Dont just lash out at Ratten like that when you dont know the details.
Who are you to criticise him?

Do you really think Ratten chose Aisake as an easy target to get his point across cause he's a foreigner. Obviously Aisake isnt doing all the necessary things he should be doing.

You really piss me off sometimes.

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Carlton Premiers '10

What I want to know from all the anti Ratts people is this:

What were your expectations this year? (I think the vast majority here thought 8-10 wins would be acceptable) So far we have won 4 out of 10, so are on target to do this.

The whole thing seems so non-sensical, because if we only win 40% of our games which is acceptable to most, we will lose 60%, and no matter what the situation is your almost never happy with a loss, and usually the game plan will look bad if you don't win.

Take a further logical step back here, at the start of the season I think most people would of seen the Geelong game as a fairly heavy defeat (which it was), its just now its happened, people rip apart the detail and over-analyse factors which were irrelevant in the team losing (over-possessing, tempo footy, Ratts losing his nerve etc), when the simple fact is this; we are a young team of boys playing against a premiership side in their prime. Last week always had the potential to get ugly, im not happy it did, but I can see why.

As with most people here, if we(barring extreme circumstances) don't see us making the finals next year, or at least showing further improvement, questions will have to be asked. I will also ask questions if we lose the rest of our games this year, like we did from this position last year (I am hoping for 8-10 this year, and 12-14 next).

For memory the last time we got an established premiership coach, that didn't exactly work out, point being what works at one club for a group of players may not exactly work in another.

The difference between a great coach and a poor one is how they teach the players on the list.

Do you think that Wiggons, Bentick and Bannister have improved under Ratten? Your answer will be yes.
You could also add Jamison, Bower, Waite, Betts and Hampson to that list.

In fairness to Pagan, players like Jamison, Bower & Hampson most likely would of naturally improved, but I do agree that Bannister was playing some good football earlier in the year, and Waite & Betts have stepped up a gear.

How has Wiggo improved though?

I am not sure that Bentick has really improved either.

I nearly went past this - but had to come back to it.
Ignore everything about Wiggo prior to this year and then look at some of the really important, telling marks and goals he's had this year.
Then go back and look at previous years and tell me he hasn't improved. His game sense has been fantastic this year - and as Lance will tell you, taht's not everything - but he really is developing the game to go with it....

Wiggo is extremely underated - and I'm someone who's been disappointed in the past.....

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Now stalking Carlton on Twitter and Facebook!

Why do you think Melvey posts here?....... he gets a kick out of this , so just ignore him.

FFS, yet another blight on our society.

our instant gratification, a microwave culture where we want everything NOW

Ratten is going okay and doing what i expect of a coach in his year (been far more impressive than other first year coaches IMO)

Our playing stock is better, and is getting better.

The improvements in Jamo, Bower, Betts, Waite etc.. and through in our injuries and a half fit judd and we have done better than i had hoped.

FFS, i would love to see how any side would go when they have 2 of their starting back 6 in a side.

Yes, lets take out Scarlett, Wojinksi, Milburn, Rooke from Geelongs back 6 and see how well they go

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod