Ackalnd will not be able to ruch all day.

JK is struggling up forward and should'nt get more responsibility

Lance is just starting to get touch up forward and would get murdered around the ground let alone the centre breaks.

Kouta has a dodgy hand and can't jump...no match fitness to top things off.

Santa has just learnt how to play the game let alone ruck.

It's not rocket science.

We need another ruckman...not just in the long term future...on the weekend.

Fraser and Bryan are going to get taller and taller as game goes into the second half.

It is a ridiculous decision not play another tall with ruck experience.

Bryan was traded/delisted because he was lazy...it would be really embarrassing to get beaten because a player that we delisted/traded to our arch rival dominates.

If Bryan kicks goals and wins centre breaks...I will be very unhappy.

I hope that I am wrong...I hope Ackland plays a blinder...please let me be wrong.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

Our Coaching staff has seen Bryan ruck and knows he can't. It deliberately sought out Ackland and must rate him higher. Its taking that risk.

If Ackland cant ruck all day after his knee injury pre-season then it will backfire. It he can then he should win.

Fraser is an overpaid hack and plays like a 6 foot rover. He's like Deluca, all height, no substance.

Youd pick Fisher and Kouta in our best 22. Kouta replaces Blackwell, Bower replaced Anderson and Fish, in his best start to a year forever, comes straight back in.


Sometimes you guys just whine for the sake of it. Probably because of your inflated pre-season expectations. We arent that good, but we're young and learning, and the team is better this week.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Bryan has played pretty well 2 weeks in a row.

He is'nt a bad ruckman either.

AND

Fraser is 100 times better than Deluca.

Please tell me 5 good things Pagan has done for the Carlton Football Club?

I will give you 2

1. Saved Fevola's career.
2. Moved Waite to CHB.
3.
4.
5.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

3. Danced with his sister

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

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They coud'nt.....could they?

4. His coaching was so poor that we were rewarded with Murphy & Gibbs

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Cheats never prosper (except in the AFL)

3. Was instrumental in keeping Thornton and Russell at the club.
4. Got us a Wizard Cup and a NAB Cup Premiership in the space of 3 years and the financial windfall that comes with it.
5. Has overseen the development of O'Hailpin, been patient and look how he has turned out.

In regards to:

3. Thornton & Russell wanted to leave...why?
It would have anything to do with 3 wooden spoons in 5 years....a dysfunctional board...being paid peanuts...i could go on

4. Silverware is good...I agree that is a positive...but we won a Wizard cup and then won a wooden spoon...that really tarnishes the silverware.
I would prefer to come 15th and not win a preseason premiership than having to be given a wooden spoon by my hysterical friends every year.

5. Santa was developed by Mitchell.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

If I tell you I just won lotto, are you going to pull out a negative from it?!

Admit it, you scoffed and asked for 5 good things Pagan has done for the club *and gave a two answer headstart*... and timetodeliver answered.

And he's dead right... now ask yourself what John Elliott has done for the club in the same time. What, nothing? That's right - he's not there anymore. Why? We know why, and you can (alongside Pagan if you wish) thank him for the biggest reason behind why we are on the wrong side of the ladder.

Pagan has had 5 years.

Elliott nearly killed our club...5 years ago!

what is your point?

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They coud'nt.....could they?

Pagan has had 2 full drafts with access to elite talent. (2004 is debatable). Unless you are saying players should be ready in 2 years, the 5 year argument doesn't stack up.

Read Stephen M's POW, where he states we are still 2-3 years off being regularly competitve against the good sides.

Port Adelaide rebuilt their list in 3 years.

Collingwood rebuilt their in 2 years.

Adelaide have been competitive with players like Massie, Shirley and co (average footballers) by great coaching and smart list management.

I dont except mediocrity...it is not a good thing to learn...and Richmond have the title in the bag.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

Bluebeard,

Port Adelaide has the Burgoyne's & Cornes Brothers, Brogan, Lade, Wilson, Wakelin, Tredrea nearly all Premiership players, all very experienced and most with fine leadership skills.

Collingwood has Didak, Holland, Burns, Buckley, Rocca, Wakelin, Presti, Johnson, Fraser, Clement, Licuira and Lockyer all 2 time grand finalists and most with great leadership qualities.

Carlton has Stevens, Fevola, Whitnall, Kouta, Lappin and Scotland. You tell me the difference between the 3 clubs and why we are still so up and down and the above clubs are not?

Leadership and strong seasoned veterans is what breeds consistant performances. We don't have it like other clubs do.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Fair call.

I just think I am sick of hearing Pagan say:

"The kids tried hard...i admire their spirit...we are 3 years away...they showed courage...we will keep learning"

5 years at the bottom is unacceptable.

Pagan needs to teach our kids how to attack the football.

We have the talent now...let Gibbs play in the midfield...give Aisake a run in the seniors...play Lappin on the HF line...lets attack the problems not juggle our kids in and out of the seniors and give them a licence to kill.

Every week I see players like Anderson sit on the bench and then put on with 5 minutes to go. Start them...play them on the superstars...they need to be given confidence by the MC and the coach.

2007 has been a lot better than the last 3 years...granted, but I want more!

As for Port adelaide/ Collingwood and Adelaide.

They have great list management. We havent. I know that we were put in a bad situation in 2002 but if Pagan had recruited kids in 2003 and 2004 rather than the Morrell, Teague standard 25yr+ players...we would have another 80+ game players on our list by now.

Pagan must take some of the blame for our slow climb up the ladder.

I dont like the way he coaches our footy team and I really dont like his gameplan...I never will.

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They coud'nt.....could they?

True But Collingwood have also had to play without the likes of Buckley, Didak, Holland, etc, etc and and have been FORCED to play their kids, they still seem to go allright!

Ditto Port Adelaide.

And North Melbourne too..............look how they're travelling. If they win tonight i'd dare say they'll beat us at Cararra the next weekend and that'll make em 5 wins in a row. 5 WINS IN A ROW!!!!!!!
When was the last time we won 5 in a row (pre-season games exculed).

I believe in our list and believe we are capable of better football than what we are playing. Who's fault is that, i'm not sure.............but i want it fixed!

I aggree that we look as though we are 2-3 years of playing finals football. But that's doesn't mean cannot be competitive during those 2-3 years and right now, we are not competitive. We are the team that other teams need to play to get their confidence back.
We make it easy,........................real easy!

The sad thing is that i am now used to loosing. It doesn't bother me anymore. What bothers me more than anything is HOW we loose cause it's in-excusable to loose by more than 40points week in week out. No excuse. It's been happening for 5 years now!

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

So Thornton and Russell wanting to leave because of a dysfunctional board is Pagan's fault as well? And doesn't the fact that he managed to convince them to stay considering how bad our on field performances have been make it even more of a positive?

While I agree that the cups are tarnished by being followed by wooden spoons, the fact that we have won them has resulted in $500,000 going to the club and both years we have won it has led to extremely high membership numbers.

As to Carlos being developed by Mitchell, I believe he played a lot of his Bullants football as a forward - yet know he's a cornerstone of an emerging defensive structure.

Look, I'm not excusing the results and nor do I like seeing us down the bottom of the ladder (it tears me up), but to say that Pagan is mostly responsible for this and that he has done nothing for the club in the 5 years he has been there is just not true.

But we could have saved his enormous wage for 5 years at $600,000 p.a.

Any young coach on say $300,000 could have coached us to 3 wooden spoons, so there's $1.5 million extra in the coffers there.

Give back the pre-season money and we're still a million in front.

Think about what that $300,000 each year could have been better spent on:
- New gym facilities
- New pool facilities
- Better support staff
- Better administration staff
- Pre-season training trips OS

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

And if we hadn't won those pre-season cups, what would our membership numbers have looked like and how much money would have been lost there?

Take a look at your own user name and tell me if you think Pagan's meeting expectations.

And don't discount that a young coach may have snagged those pre-season premierships too. Pagan's not the only one who can sell some false hope to the members. Someone else may even have had an alternative game plan to be successful in the regular season too.

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

This is such a stupid point . I don't want a cheap coach building our future. Whether it's DP or someone else, I want to know that we don't get a Terry Wallace/Rocket Eade type who misjudge the squad's ability and then trade away top picks for old mules.

There's 26 players on our list now that can rotate for 5 years with success where as Dogs, Tigers, Bombers and Pies will have to continually have to patch and fill as they go.

It would have been great to save all that money and jeopordize the future now knowing we've got the $5b man in charge