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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 8:58 am 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
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Voss coaching record at the Lions was 109 games 43 wins 65 losses 1 draw so name another coach with a history like that would get another coaching job after been sacked


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:24 am 
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Ken Hunter
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If he'd gone straight from that job to this one, I'd agree. He did the job before the apprenticeship.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:33 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
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tommi wrote:
PAR….

we’re taking 3 from the Tee every week at the moment 99…
gets tough to make par from there…!

we actually toe’d one down the middle against the cats..!


kindest regards tommi


To me, performances aren't just the final score Tommi

We were below-par against GWS and probably against NM (especially the "killer instinct" part of a performance)

The Rich game was a toss of the coin and they've been ordinary this year

The Adel, StK and Bris games have been a double-bogie from a performance point of view (not talking about the final result, although that old adage of look after the process and the outcome looks after itself is also true)...and funnily enough, we played on those same 3 golf courses last year and learnt SFA about the layout, the wind, the obstacles, the sand traps, the caddies etc.

That is coaching every day of the week

Happy to have a different view Tommi

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:51 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2033
keogh wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
It's not the 1980's. The head coach is the manager of the coaches and leader of the club but the head coach is rarely the strategic director these days. Ross Lyon has openly stated he gave full responsibility to his assistants to design the game plan and strategic direction of the Saints. Chris Fagan has little involvement at the Lions and a mates son plays at the Pies. He told me MaRae gives full autonomy to his assistants and he manages relationships with the players.

Personally I believe Voss is an excellent leader of the club but his assistants are yet to show their value. Hanson is very highly rated but he hasn't shown me any variation. Hamill has been hamstrung by injury but he has some exceptional talent at his disposal and the players appear to like Clarke but his strategies were worked out by the opposing teams mid last year and he hasn't shown an ability to deviate.
We were great at bursting out the front of stoppages early last year but all clubs are running a defender off the line against us now to prevent that succeeding.

We need a significant change of strategy. Both offensive and defensive. We've fallen back into old habits of recent with our defenders dropping off their opponents and happily taking the back position. We don't need to bite off the corridor all the time like we tried last night but we need to move the ball faster. We're letting the opposition set up too often which takes away the 15-20m kicks that can break up a zone.
Our players need to be re-programmed to understand additional possession doesn't necessarily equate to success. I was frustrated last night watching Docherty calling for the ball to be switched laterally several times when the "best for team" decision was to go forward before the opposition got numbers back.
It's obvious to everyone we're overpossessing the footy, moving it too slowly and lacking the movement to create options when we have the ball. Voss has spoken about it numerous times.
The key is to get some strategic diversity in the coaches box that offers more than we have now. We had some good strategies 12 months ago but we've struggled to come up with anything since it's been countered.



Our recruiting has been our main problem
Coaching needs to be better too which I will get to
Silvangi stuffed up 7 picks between 2017 to 2019
4 top 10s
3 top 20s
No need to go into details
Besides McGovern who overall has been crap in 4.5 years Silvangi either traded or used these picks on mids
These mids of which two are still at the club and are ordinary have all been busts
Any head of recruitment half decent would have got 3 of those right
All these guys should be approaching the prime of their careers

Imagine how much better we would be if we had 3 more decent mids who could also run off half back and distribute the ball effectively
I was angry with the Setterfield McGovern trades as you know and now we are seeing the full effect of it
Simply put even if we were coached better we still arnt a top 4 team
In saying all that there are some disturbing trends in the coaching box
Teams have figured as out
Saad’s effectiveness has been nullified
Teams make him defend ( Ben Keays twice) or impede his overlap run as what happened Friday night
Voss and co continue to play him in the same spot
So change his role
Play him on a wing on the ball for 10 minutes
When Cripps gets under 20 possessions we have lost 7 out of the last 8 games
So why not chuck him up forward
Other than the North game where the opposition back line were midgets the Curnow McKay duo hasn’t worked
So play Curnow on the ball for periods of the game

Nothing has changed since round 10 last year
I agree that the coaching group is a collective
One man’s weakness is another man’s strength

But surely if it isn’t working you change it
It ain’t rocket science
Voss’ press conferences are becoming less convincing as the year goes on


I have stated numerous times previously but to strike out so consistently with our early draft picks, particularly considering the focus was to build the midfield with these picks was our biggest stuff up. The whole point of the rebuild was to focus on youth and the pointy end of the draft. We did well in building our spine but not so great in building a high quality midfield to compete in September.

Instead we topped up before having a team capable of winning a premiership.

Having picks 3 and 10 in one draft and ending up with average players was a big setback for this club. Surely at least one of those players should have been a long term quality player for the club.

Now we are appearing to be middling at best.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 11:07 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I don't agree that the policy of recruiting mature-age players was wrong. Our list was physically underdeveloped, the age profile was weighted to the extremes, and we needed some strong bodies to help get the best out of the likes of Cripps and Walsh before they got pummeled into early retirement. How many premiership teams are built entirely through the national draft, anyway? Maybe the secret is to find more Cincotta and Cottrell types for cattle and use draft capital to land the big fish.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 11:13 am 
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Bruce Doull
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99prelim wrote:
tommi wrote:
PAR….

we’re taking 3 from the Tee every week at the moment 99…
gets tough to make par from there…!

we actually toe’d one down the middle against the cats..!


kindest regards tommi


To me, performances aren't just the final score Tommi

We were below-par against GWS and probably against NM (especially the "killer instinct" part of a performance)

The Rich game was a toss of the coin and they've been ordinary this year

The Adel, StK and Bris games have been a double-bogie from a performance point of view (not talking about the final result, although that old adage of look after the process and the outcome looks after itself is also true)...and funnily enough, we played on those same 3 golf courses last year and learnt SFA about the layout, the wind, the obstacles, the sand traps, the caddies etc.

That is coaching every day of the week

Happy to have a different view Tommi





Sorry 99….

i didn’t explain myself very well…but i agree with you…100%…!

it was late and my execution was lazy…!


kindest regards tommi

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 11:39 am 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 2033
GreatEx wrote:
I don't agree that the policy of recruiting mature-age players was wrong. Our list was physically underdeveloped, the age profile was weighted to the extremes, and we needed some strong bodies to help get the best out of the likes of Cripps and Walsh before they got pummeled into early retirement. How many premiership teams are built entirely through the national draft, anyway? Maybe the secret is to find more Cincotta and Cottrell types for cattle and use draft capital to land the big fish.


My view is you recruit the mature aged players on bigger contracts when the younger players have been developed and are ready to take that next step in competing for a premiership.

I don’t think we have ever reached that point. The inability of players like Dow, O’Brien, SPS, Docker, Settlefield, Fisher etc to become quality players and be part of the nucleus of our next premiership team means we won’t be contending as early as the club expected. Doesn’t mean we will never get there. Just means it will take longer than expected.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 11:56 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I guess I'm a bit skeptical about the draft-first approach because I've had the "privilege" of watching GWS week-in, week-out on Channel 7 Sydney, and they had all the draft concessions in the world and compiled an awesome list of young talent, but even in those exceptional circumstances could only manage one GF humiliation. And then you look at GCS...


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 12:00 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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GreatEx wrote:
I guess I'm a bit skeptical about the draft-first approach because I've had the "privilege" of watching GWS week-in, week-out on Channel 7 Sydney, and they had all the draft concessions in the world and compiled an awesome list of young talent, but even in those exceptional circumstances could only manage one GF humiliation. And then you look at GCS...


The draft first approach did set up both Geelong’s and Hawthorn’s dynasties

However, there is more than simply relying on early picks in the draft to become a successful club ie player development, game strategies, stable board etc


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 6:00 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:58 pm
Posts: 155
Watching most teams play this weekend if Voss doesn’t evolve with the new style of the game and he is coaching us we will be a bottom 4 side
I feel Voss and assistant coaches and match committee are to soft or not game enough to make hard calls


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 6:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 24714
Location: Bondi Beach
GreatEx wrote:
I guess I'm a bit skeptical about the draft-first approach because I've had the "privilege" of watching GWS week-in, week-out on Channel 7 Sydney, and they had all the draft concessions in the world and compiled an awesome list of young talent, but even in those exceptional circumstances could only manage one GF humiliation. And then you look at GCS...


You just have to look at how many of our best 22 are made of imports from other teams.

Just goes to show how too many picks spoil the list, or something like that.

The common denominator of the failures is SOS. Other list managers had plenty of misses too, but heaps more successful later picks.
I dont think there would be a list manager who has had so many first round picks fail as SOS.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 7:24 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Doesn't matter who is running the show internally, voss is the boss so to speak. If condom head, clarke(son) (vomit) etc are doing sfa, it's Image

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 8:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/fou ... 5d6ai.html

Why Carlton have the blues

The theory has been you stop Paddy Cripps and you stop Carlton. And it’s true, to an extent.

The other part to the newer theory is that, presently, you can rely on Carlton to do your job for you. Carlton helps stop Carlton.

This is not to diminish Brisbane’s outstanding, intelligent effort and intense pressure on Friday night, but Carlton are the most self-destructive of the top eight teams. They’re ball use is just dreadful for a side with pretensions to finals.

Carlton gave up 85 points from turnovers on Friday night, their worst turnover performance since 2021 and the fourth-worst of any side this season. Bearing in mind some of the poor teams at the bottom of the ladder that is quite some feat. They now concede 46 points a game from turnovers on average.

In the last month, Carlton have given up 62 points against Adelaide, 52 against St Kilda, were ahead against West Coast in outscoring them by 16 points from this scoring source, and then they had the 85 points they gave up against Brisbane.

Clearly in those last four games lowly West Coast distorts the figures. If you take that game out (and therefore look at them against three other teams in the top eight) then Carlton have been just awful and bottom three with North and West Coast for points conceded from turnover. Even Hawthorn is above them

Bear in mind they were not always this bad, even this year. In the first month, even against other good teams, they were the opposite of what they are now. They were very good at forcing the opposition into turning the ball over and in that first bracket of four games they outscored their opposition from scores created by turnovers. But in the last month they have fallen to pieces.

What Friday’s game revealed is that Brisbane did their homework on the Blues. Yes, they went to work on Cripps and the Carlton captain consequently had it only 17 times, but they also went in with a plan knowing that Carlton have been vulnerable to giving the ball back and being scored against.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Quote:
They’re ball use is just dreadful


That's not the only thing


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:03 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
tommi wrote:
99prelim wrote:
tommi wrote:
PAR….

we’re taking 3 from the Tee every week at the moment 99…
gets tough to make par from there…!

we actually toe’d one down the middle against the cats..!


kindest regards tommi


To me, performances aren't just the final score Tommi

We were below-par against GWS and probably against NM (especially the "killer instinct" part of a performance)

The Rich game was a toss of the coin and they've been ordinary this year

The Adel, StK and Bris games have been a double-bogie from a performance point of view (not talking about the final result, although that old adage of look after the process and the outcome looks after itself is also true)...and funnily enough, we played on those same 3 golf courses last year and learnt SFA about the layout, the wind, the obstacles, the sand traps, the caddies etc.

That is coaching every day of the week

Happy to have a different view Tommi





Sorry 99….

i didn’t explain myself very well…but i agree with you…100%…!

it was late and my execution was lazy…!


kindest regards tommi


:thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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GreatEx wrote:
Quote:
They’re ball use is just dreadful


That's not the only thing


It’s amazing how many people who “write” for a living can’t actually write.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 9:41 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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To write….!


kindest regards tommi







Huh…?

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:10 am
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WOW wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
I guess I'm a bit skeptical about the draft-first approach because I've had the "privilege" of watching GWS week-in, week-out on Channel 7 Sydney, and they had all the draft concessions in the world and compiled an awesome list of young talent, but even in those exceptional circumstances could only manage one GF humiliation. And then you look at GCS...


The draft first approach did set up both Geelong’s and Hawthorn’s dynasties

However, there is more than simply relying on early picks in the draft to become a successful club ie player development, game strategies, stable board etc


I think our list is strong. We just aren’t playing to anywhere near its potential


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2023 10:46 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Location: Conservative Brisbane :O(
Brisbane did their homework on the blues. Carlton sat around having a couple of mojitos

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 7:58 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Do you need to do homework or do you just read the cliff notes? The reality is they’re horrible to watch, you just know that an error is coming and that it’s going to be costly.

I think, as a club, there is a real danger of this becoming Teague/Bolton/Malthouse like with the players simply resigning themselves to the fact they’re shit and giving up. As important as the game plan is if the players have no belief then you’re done before you hit the ground. If Newman was off to the bench before his player has kicked the goal…FMD, I just don’t know what’s going through their heads


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