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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:19 am 
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Bruce Doull
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cimm1979 wrote:
The whole MM "if I don't coach next year, I never will" should be a massive warning to the people making the decisions.

AFAIC it's MM saying "I'm available and I have no intention of going through a process so don't !@#$%& around"

Well if Ratt's is gone then surely we need to open the position to everyone who may be suitable. I know the current thinking is we need an proven coach, but that belief is driven by the perception the club itself isn't a place that can support a newbie, even if he is shown to be the best available.

This position would command between $500k and $1.0m, surely there is more than one candidate?

If the club structure is so poor it can't support the next big thing in coaching surely the structure should be fixed so it does.

By picking MM do we miss out on a Scott, Clarkson, Sanderson, Longmire or even the next MM, Woosha, Roos, Lyon or Mathews.?

Will the current group of players fall for his endless stories of the ANZAC's, The Roman Legions or Hannibal?

MM is as much a risk as anyone else. If they appoint him fine, but don't do it because they reckon it will drag in an extra 5000 members and that he is the possessor of the secret recipe, because he doesn't. Do it because he is absolutely the best candidate.


For what its worth..... MM knows he has the job unofficially.

He says to do it now... but also says after october.

he says he doesnt cut another coaches lunch but left a year early from wce.

it s just smoke and mirrors.... he doesnt wanna come to carlton as the man who killed ratts......

i think u r all trying to read too much into the mm speculation.

he gets hassled by media and plays his game.....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:30 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Interesting the "poor" Ratten - "keep him" campaign in most of the media. Good way of creating a "loose loose" situation so the media can put the boot in.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:31 am 
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Serge Silvagni
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Is he here yet ????

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:38 am 
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formerly cj69

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I have no doubt that Mick Malthouse is who we need. Why?

The club overall has lost its way and I seriously believe our biggest issues are development, game structure and getting the best out of our players.

I was lucky enough to see what bringing in an experienced and successful coach can do to a club. I was the experience of a lifetime.

Look what Matthews did at Collingwood (no Premierships for 23 years), Brisbane/Fitzroy (60 odd years), Roos Swans (60 odd years). If you have ever been involved in a club (and a lot of you have) you will understand what the culture means. We have lost our way and we need big changes. We need to be a WINNER again. Second best and Mediocrity needs not be tolerated.

IMO the only way that will happen is to bring a single minded and experienced coach. When Malthouse took over at Collingwood, WCE & Bulldogs they were all struggling. When all left they were all better for it! Also, Swann and he will work well together and that is an issue at the moment.

I am excited to see what Malthouse can do with Yarran, Garlett, Gibbs, Henderson, Touhy, Casboult, McInnes, Lucas, Watson, Waite, Robinson, Bootsma, Warnock etc. There is a lot of talent on our list yet to be utilised.

If he can be there for 3-5 years you will see a big change in our outlook and belief. After that, and once that is established then it is time to bring in a gun assistant coach from somewhere.




On a side note: I hope after a break Ratten can be retained in some role. Maybe as an opposition analyst?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:43 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Quote:
On a side note: I hope after a break Ratten can be retained in some role. Maybe as an opposition analyst?


I don't think he can live with that. It would all be so much easier if Ratten was not such a great servant o the club and such a good bloke.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:45 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:51 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?



Great risk. We cant afford to take risk again - the "window" is open now. You look at the record of the untried coaches and you see it's a hit and miss thing. You cant completely judge people on their assistant coach record. Some step up well, others fail.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:52 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?




I think the fear is that a newbie won't be able to stick up for himself and won't have the firepower to take on the existing Carlton culture.

It's a shit basis on which to select a coach.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:54 am 
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formerly cj69

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mikkey wrote:
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?



Great risk. We cant afford to take risk again - the "window" is open now. You look at the record of the untried coaches and you see it's a hit and miss thing. You cant completely judge people on their assistant coach record. Some step up well, others fail.


Why would you go untried when there is a proven coach available?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:54 am 
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Horrie Clover

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[GoogleVideo][/GoogleVideo]
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?


Voss says hello :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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It's a massive risk taking on Mick Malthouse - who could easily be past it as a coach and out of his depth.

Look at the amount of coin we are likely to be risking on Malthouse.

Why is this club so @#$%&! unwilling to get into the 21st century and do things @#$%&! properly!

An old @#$%&! boys club and club unable to do things properly!

Everything is so @#$%&! amateurish...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:56 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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judd2fev wrote:
[GoogleVideo][/GoogleVideo]
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?


Voss says hello :lol:


And Ross Lyon, Clarkson, Scott, Scott, Sanderson....all untried coaches.

Why can't this @#$%&! club do things properly for a change???

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:57 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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mikkey wrote:
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?



Great risk. We cant afford to take risk again - the "window" is open now. You look at the record of the untried coaches and you see it's a hit and miss thing. You cant completely judge people on their assistant coach record. Some step up well, others fail.


I don't agree with "window open" thinking as it's myopic and restricts efforts at long term continuous improvement.

It's like saying our list is good enough to win a flag with one or two additions. The list should be "built" so it's not reliant on one or two additions.

But I agree that people make decisions using this reasoning.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:59 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Effes wrote:
judd2fev wrote:
[GoogleVideo][/GoogleVideo]
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?


Voss says hello :lol:


And Ross Lyon, Clarkson, Scott, Scott, Sanderson....all untried coaches.

Why can't this !@#$%& club do things properly for a change???


Actually we could. MM says he doe want to wait until season is over. So if the club sacks Ratten next week they could perform a proper selection process which includes MM as a candidate. But then again, we are Carlton......... :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Effes wrote:
judd2fev wrote:
[GoogleVideo][/GoogleVideo]
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?


Voss says hello :lol:


And Ross Lyon, Clarkson, Scott, Scott, Sanderson....all untried coaches.

Why can't this !@#$%& club do things properly for a change???


umm... Ratten was untried.

Matthew Primus, James Hird, Michael Voss, Scott Watters, Brendan McCarthy.

What's your point? It's easy to put up names on both sides of the arguement.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Adelaide Blue wrote:
umm... Ratten was untried.

Matthew Primus, James Hird, Michael Voss, Scott Watters, Brendan McCarthy.

What's your point? It's easy to put up names on both sides of the arguement.


Did Ratten ever go through a proper selection process?

Did he ever do a thorough apprenticeship?

My point is this club doesn't do things properly - list management, communications, membership, coaching appointments.

Amateur hour.....17 years and counting.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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ThePsychologist wrote:
mikkey wrote:
Effes wrote:
Why can't the new coach be an untried coach?



Great risk. We cant afford to take risk again - the "window" is open now. You look at the record of the untried coaches and you see it's a hit and miss thing. You cant completely judge people on their assistant coach record. Some step up well, others fail.


Why would you go untried when there is a proven coach available?


Because the proven coach may not be the best, they may not be a good fit, their message may be stale, they may be mentally flaky, they may be untrustworthy, their last club may have shoved them, they may be motivated by reasons other than making Carlton a great on field club like say A MILLION BUCKS!! so there's a few.

Eventually all "proven" coaches reach there use by date..

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:06 pm 
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formerly cj69

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Effes wrote:
Adelaide Blue wrote:
umm... Ratten was untried.

Matthew Primus, James Hird, Michael Voss, Scott Watters, Brendan McCarthy.

What's your point? It's easy to put up names on both sides of the arguement.


Did Ratten ever go through a proper selection process?

Did he ever do a thorough apprenticeship?

My point is this club doesn't do things properly - list management, communications, membership, coaching appointments.

Amateur hour.....17 years and counting.


I agree.

Which is why I wouldn't bring in someone new now. Things need fixing and IMO MM is the right person for where we are at.

Ratten shouldn't of been appointed (or reappointed) in the first place. Didn't do anyone any good.

Get the place up and running then look at a Scott type. We should ALWAYS be looking to improve.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:08 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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MM finished coaching in 2011. His last 2 years were 1st and 2nd.
Now, how can you suggest he is a massive risk and someone like Scott Burns or Ken Hinkley would be a safer option.
There is no logic there

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Do we really want a coach who won't accept criticism/negative feedback

viewtopic.php?p=1310019#p1310019

Is this what we want at the club?

Remember how many dollars the club will be committing to this!

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