I don't doubt that they will...

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Pros:

We're always in games, even when we're not at our best.
Cripps, Charlie, Cincotta, Harry, Saad, Elijah.
Owies and Weiters started well.

Cons:

Really disappointed we didn't show greater intensity out of respect for the captain.
Lost the ball movement battle again. Couldn't slow their lightning attacks down. Struggled to exit defensive 50. Wish we'd get more creative with our kick ins after an opposition behind.
The rest of our midfield struggled.
Pretty disappointing to concede 8 goals between West and Ugle-Hagen.
Pittonet probably played himself out of the side again. We leaked goals when he was rucking.
It's not so much that you can't play 2 ruckmen in 2024. I just think we don't have enough pace to compensate like other teams do.

Cons:

Weightman playing for frees, and kneeing Weiters in the back.
We obviously look better when McGovern plays, but we really need another key position defender who can nullify tall forwards. Because all the evidence suggests that Kemp can't do it right now. And Marchbank has been struggling with VFL level opposition tall fowards. No surprise he can't cope with AFL tall forwards.

Guy is a cheat.
Nowhere near the fall of the ball and jumps into a Carlton player to suck the umpire in.
A defender does that and they give away a free 100% of the time.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

yeah agreed on kemp. i think he is being groomed to be the intercept defender when gov leaves ... but i'm not sure he'll ever be up to that job?


marchbank might have played his last game for us. he's not up to afl level defending. one injury too many

Hard to disagree with a lot of the post morteming going on in here, but like players, coaches and selection panels make mistakes. I've never been convinced that Voss is the best match day thinker going around but the best coaches don't always get the stuffed panda. We're still second and a few other sides in the mix are also inexplicably blowing games they shouldn't. I'm still confident we'll work it out. The big worry for me is that we might be in denial about the extent of injuries (or match conditioning) to some players. I hope it's just a form thing and the machine will click into gear again soon.

I don't mind tinkering at the edges but it seems that bringing in Cerra and Cottrell at the same time has backfired - one out-of-former we might have covered for. Marchbank would have been handy when we were on our way up but his inclusion now is looking a little desperate and I think his chances of becoming more than a witch's hat are slim - I hope he can prove me wrong. Young is similar and should have come on by now. Weiters is going to be targeted more and more by the opposition and we need some novel solutions down back if Gov isn't firing any time soon. I think the midfield and forward dramas are easier to fix with the personnel we have.

Whoops, gotta go...

Anyhoo, other teams are not having a simple go at it. Swings and roundabouts. We're well and truly in this.

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'People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.'
Soren Kierkegaard

wondering if martin comes back and plays well, along with williams, we have them both forward with charlie, fog, owies and elijah, and move harry to chb?

it'd fix the problem of too tall and not enough front half pressure being laid. and harry could be that big defensive presence that locks down a key forward?

Couldn’t believe how much Marchbank went to ground. Sad to watch.

Play the drinking game when watching the replay. Have a drink every time Marchy goes to ground. You’ll be blind about 15 mins in.

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We are on our way back...

That was the same goal Cottrell run under the ball uncontested. Dropped mark, goal. Marchbank sitting on the floor nearby.

According to the commentators, at one stage when Pittonet was in ruck, we were outscored 26-1
With De Koning in the ruck we scored 19 to the Bulldogs 2 points. Yet according to you it was TDK who was putrid?

TDK was the 2nd highest rated player in the AFL before last week. He rolled his ankle at the start of the game and according to the coach has been limited yet he still had our second most contested possessions last week, our second most clearances and as our sole ruck, he'd led us to a 8-1 winning record.

This week for whatever reason he's consigned to a position where his output is significantly reduced and our winning record is also significantly reduced. They're the facts.
Yet he still had 19 possessions to Pittonets 9, 5 marks to 0, 4 tackles to 2 and 3 contested marks/3 intercept marks to 0.

I reckon it's some of the criticisms and agendas getting around here that are putrid, not players like TDK who are giving their all.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Like your work Braithy but that ain’t going to work. From my perspective Harry is the most frustrating player on our list. 6ft 8in 100+ kgs has superb pace but gets outbodied far too easily. Does not like the physical stuff. He should have taken the dogs defenders to the cleaners. Lobb for goodness sake beat him in the second half.

One possession in a half. Fu@@ me. $850k per annum and puts up that effort. He could give so much more. Should take a leaf out of his skipper’s book. Does he want it bad enough?

When the Dogs have played poorly this year they have often rebounded hard the next week. They did it again.

We've had 2 little slumps this year. We lost 3 from 4 earlier on, then followed that by pumping Port in Adelaide, Essendon* and Geelong, who we pumped unmercifully even more. Now we have another little slump. 23 game season, it happens. Fair chance we hit the finals much fresher mentally. We were slowly cooking mentally last year by the end despite 2 great finals wins. Once we pump another side we'll keep pumping sides for the rest of the year as the smell of finals, and maybe something more, gets closer.

leigh matthews shun the torch on the whole pittonet thing. which is what many of us see. key points:

said he can't understand what voss is doing. hitouts are the most useless stat in footy
carlton, if they have a weakness is that they're a slow team. and pittonet makes us the slowest team in the afl
pittonet does nothing but tap, he has no repeat efforts, cannot move around the ground, cannot get to contests, cannot mark consistently
tdk is the number one ruck here, who also makes us that bit more mobile at stoppage and is (in his opinion) the most impactful ruck going around

was asked what is voss, his old captain doing playing pittonet and tdk - matthews response was "i have no idea" two rucks doesn't work with our balance, and hitouts are the most useless afl stat that mean nothing. we concede too many points when pittonet plays, and voss must see the stats which back that up, yet he keeps persisting with a formula not conducive to winning.


i think voss & cripps are obsessed with getting first use of the ball. and this obsession needs to be bought under control before finals.

if tdk is carrying injuries, play pittonet and rest him.

Funny that coz when Mathews coached he almost always went with two rucks . Come finals it seems to work .

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All my dangerous friends

Pittonet isn't the best player, but he must feature on the AFL's rules DVD, he seems to get pinged for infringements that other rucks get away with.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

it was a different game back when matthews coached and voss played. first use of the ball usually meant you win. afl has been a series of trends and countering those trends, in forever.

you could say, voss is living in the past with his stubbornness over 2 rucks.

for me ... if the dees couldn't find the right balance and make it work with literally the two best rucks in the comp. what in high tide jesus are we doing trying to make it work with pittonet?

I like the idea of us getting first use of the ball.

Assuming we don't completely shit the bed and miss the finals we'll need to consider 2 rucks against certain teams.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Well it worked last year for the Pies who had crappy rucks . You mention the Dees who won a flag off the back of Gawn and Jackson . That's why they went after Grundy . I"m not saying we must go with two rucks but to dismiss the two ruck option as unworkable is just plain wrong . It does work . Maybe not for us but for others it is a godsend .

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All my dangerous friends

David King: “[One or two rucks] has become the topic of the weekend & I think it's the biggest issue at Carlton that they need to address or correct, [Leigh Montagna] showed some great vision on their defensive stuff but this is done at selection.

I want to qualify Marc Pittonet as a ruckman, what does he bring - is he solely responsible for the first possession profile. These are his hitouts, so you be the judge - this is unedited, this is just his hits to advantage where they start with first possession.

Now this could be De Koning & you give him more minutes in the ruck & you get more influence. He gave away a free kick there, he cost them a point on that one. That there, he sets them on the path.

I think he's a pretty good commodity as a ruckman & if you want to judge scores from clearance, I think that's a false economy when you talk about what that ruckman is bringing. He doesn't bring the score, he brings the ability for you to start with the ball.

There's a whole host of things that have to happen after that, you have to win a contest after that, probably in the forward half of the ground but if you can gain your team possession of the football - away you go, you get a chance to play.

I don't think Carlton can win the flag without winning the clearance profile & in a dominant sense. If they're 50-50, I don't think the other areas of their game are good enough to beat Sydney when they're absolutely flying, Brisbane if they hold this sort of form or to travel on the road.

I just think if they're to be the team, they have to win clearance - so do you service that by playing the extra ruckman? You be the judge.”

Leigh Montagna: “It's hard to argue with what he does as a ruckman, I think he's the #2 or #3 rated ruckman in the competition & his hitouts are valuable.”

David King: “That hitout cost a goal, the goal you showed earlier [Newman outmarked in the goal square], that's the goal against him from a personal sense in the ruck battle with English.”

ENGLISH VS PITTONET
TEAM RETURNS
FIRST POSSESSION - 21 v 26
CLEARANCES - 20 v 23
SCORES VIA - 5.4.34 v 0.2.2

“Now on the stats sheet that's how it reads, 5.4.34 English vs Pittonet but first possessions are where I want to go - 26 to 21. If you want to look at scores from clearance, let's just see if you want to blame Marc Pittonet for these goals.

Because I think if you want to stretch that & put this to him to his responsibility or his fault, you're dreaming. There's no way you can blame Marc Pittonet for [the goal to Cody Weightman after being tackled high]. That goes down as a goal from clearance, he's hit the ball to advantage.

This one you just showed it, Bontempelli wrapping through - neither ruckman touched the ball, goal from clearance. This one here, he taps the ball effectively to Cerra who coughs the ball up, gives it up & they step through - goal from clearance. Are you blaming Pittonet for that one?

You've got to dig a bit deeper than just say it's 5 goals to 0 from clearance, that's rubbish. Here he taps the ball perfectly to advantage for Cerra who handballs to the wrong player. What responsibility of Marc Pittonet is that?

I understand the broader discussion, does he do anything around the ground, does De Koning offer more? He probably does, he probably does but if you want a ruckman - that's what you're getting.

You can sub him out of the game early if you need to, if need be & take a risk on getting an injury but let's compare apples with apples. [The record with him in the team] is a whole host of factors.

To steal one of Ross [Lyon's], that's a fingernail deep analysis if you're going to say they don't win with him in the team because you're talking about one player coming in. I won't buy that.”

Leigh Montagna: “That's the other aspect, does he change the balance of the team. Going forward to work with the other boys down there, is it better with Harry McKay getting up & down into the ruck.”

David King: “[Charlie & Harry] kicked 6.9 the other night between those two, fifteen shots at goal! You wouldn't be talking about it, if they converted those opportunities. They're the fine lines you live in.

This is probably Michael Voss' biggest decision, it's not for us to make. We just sit back & assess the performance but I thought his performance was reasonably solid & different to the discussions.”

[First Crack]

Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws