List Management 2020

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28225

Jez1966 wrote:

So that's 7 gone off the primary list and 1 rookie.

yep - viewtopic.php?p=1965789#p1965789

blueboy23 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:28 pm

Few players are very very lucky.
I would look at Jack Newnes as a FA.

PercyJones · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:40 pm

I did hear Kerr was going back to St Kevin’s two weeks ago.

bender · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:56 pm

PercyJones wrote:

I did hear Kerr was going back to St Kevin’s two weeks ago.

for his HSC?

kezza · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm **Posts:** 14698

Donstuie wrote:

Billy Longer as DFA?

Billy is a friend of my son and he caught up with him recently.
Billy has had concussion issues this year and has damaged sinuses from the knocks.
He is likely to receive a payment from the AFL next year as he was injured during his final year.
If he receives this payout I believe he is not allowed to play next year, including at local level.

GMCbris · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:40 am

I really didnt expect us to cut this many

This does make the trade period a whole lot more interesting.

Also feel Kerr is unlucky

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10268

GMCbris wrote:

I really didnt expect us to cut this many

This does make the trade period a whole lot more interesting.

Also feel Kerr is unlucky

x2.

I just hope we trade the right players and not just list cloggers for the sake of trading/refreshing.

sinbagger · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:23 pm

SurreyBlue wrote:

GMCbris wrote:

I really didnt expect us to cut this many

This does make the trade period a whole lot more interesting.

Also feel Kerr is unlucky

x2.

I just hope we trade the right players and not just list cloggers for the sake of trading/refreshing.

Kerr has to to go to free up KPP space for Eddie...

Humpers · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:28 pm **Posts:** 4819

Scotty12000 wrote:

Humpers wrote:

Not keen on paying overs for Papley and I'm not sure Martin is that good.
Maybe a good idea to invest in the draft this year. Remember Simpson and Murphy will need to be replaced in 2021.

Draft is shallow, have enough kids.

If Murphy and Simpson need to be replaced in 2021 we don't need to be replacing them with 18 year olds, we need to be replacing them with 25+ year olds.

I don't agree that we "have enough kids".
Next year the players we selected from the 2015 draft (Weiters, McKay, Curnow, Cunningham, JSOS) will be in their 5th year whilst SPS and Fisher in their 4th year - no longer kids. Also we can expect a fair bit more from Dow and O'Brien who will be in their 3rd year not to mention Walsh, Setterfield and Stocker.

Thomas needs replacing now, Murphy and Simpson in a years time, and Kreuzer and Ed Curnow the year after. Docherty and Williamson might not play another game for us so we can't assume they will fill any voids. Also Marchbank and Cunningham are more often than not injured.

Small forwards don't take as long to develop so I don't think it is too late for us to recruit one through the draft. Rioli was a first year player for Richmond in 2017, Higgins was a regular for them last year - and Cyril for Hawthorn in 2008 (however I realise he was a freak).

I'm all for targetting free agents and trading for ready made players providing the deal is in our favour however hope we don't panic and pay overs for players thinking that we are only a player or two away from premiership #17. We made this mistake in 2008/09 by wasting picks on McLean and Warnock and more recently with the genius Jaksch/Whiley/Boekhorst trade.

kezza · **Joined:** Thu May 11, 2006 6:11 pm **Posts:** 14698

Simpson re-signed for next year.

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

kezza wrote:

Simpson re-signed for next year.

Awesome. Four things we know for sure:

1. Another year in which we'll lose (or draw) at least one game due to a shanked kick in the final seconds.
2. Another year in which we'll win at least one game due to a fantastic intercept mark, a run & bounce, and a great centring kick to a player who scores the winning goal.
3. Another year in which we'll win at least one game due to his kicking of the winning goal from a freakishly impossible angle.
4. Another year of marvelling at the resillience and courage of this tiny player competing with giants.

Go Simmo!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

grrofunger · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:22 pm

2 wins 1 loss

Good result.

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10268

Humpers wrote:

Scotty12000 wrote:

Humpers wrote:

Not keen on paying overs for Papley and I'm not sure Martin is that good.
Maybe a good idea to invest in the draft this year. Remember Simpson and Murphy will need to be replaced in 2021.

Draft is shallow, have enough kids.

If Murphy and Simpson need to be replaced in 2021 we don't need to be replacing them with 18 year olds, we need to be replacing them with 25+ year olds.

I don't agree that we "have enough kids".
Next year the players we selected from the 2015 draft (Weiters, McKay, Curnow, Cunningham, JSOS) will be in their 5th year whilst SPS and Fisher in their 4th year - no longer kids. Also we can expect a fair bit more from Dow and O'Brien who will be in their 3rd year not to mention Walsh, Setterfield and Stocker.

Thomas needs replacing now, Murphy and Simpson in a years time, and Kreuzer and Ed Curnow the year after. Docherty and Williamson might not play another game for us so we can't assume they will fill any voids. Also Marchbank and Cunningham are more often than not injured.

Small forwards don't take as long to develop so I don't think it is too late for us to recruit one through the draft. Rioli was a first year player for Richmond in 2017, Higgins was a regular for them last year - and Cyril for Hawthorn in 2008 (however I realise he was a freak).

I'm all for targetting free agents and trading for ready made players providing the deal is in our favour however hope we don't panic and pay overs for players thinking that we are only a player or two away from premiership #17. We made this mistake in 2008/09 by wasting picks on McLean and Warnock and more recently with the genius Jaksch/Whiley/Boekhorst trade.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:41 pm

Humpers wrote:

Scotty12000 wrote:

Humpers wrote:

Not keen on paying overs for Papley and I'm not sure Martin is that good.
Maybe a good idea to invest in the draft this year. Remember Simpson and Murphy will need to be replaced in 2021.

Draft is shallow, have enough kids.

If Murphy and Simpson need to be replaced in 2021 we don't need to be replacing them with 18 year olds, we need to be replacing them with 25+ year olds.

I don't agree that we "have enough kids".
Next year the players we selected from the 2015 draft (Weiters, McKay, Curnow, Cunningham, JSOS) will be in their 5th year whilst SPS and Fisher in their 4th year - no longer kids. Also we can expect a fair bit more from Dow and O'Brien who will be in their 3rd year not to mention Walsh, Setterfield and Stocker.

Thomas needs replacing now, Murphy and Simpson in a years time, and Kreuzer and Ed Curnow the year after. Docherty and Williamson might not play another game for us so we can't assume they will fill any voids. Also Marchbank and Cunningham are more often than not injured.

Small forwards don't take as long to develop so I don't think it is too late for us to recruit one through the draft. Rioli was a first year player for Richmond in 2017, Higgins was a regular for them last year - and Cyril for Hawthorn in 2008 (however I realise he was a freak).

I'm all for targetting free agents and trading for ready made players providing the deal is in our favour however hope we don't panic and pay overs for players thinking that we are only a player or two away from premiership #17. We made this mistake in 2008/09 by wasting picks on McLean and Warnock and more recently with the genius Jaksch/Whiley/Boekhorst trade.

Fair enough.

Its just an opinion but my opinion is we have enough kids.

The profile tells me that, as does the plan.

There's more kids than those you mention...plus we just delisted some kids...we need ready made players to add to the group and ready made players to take over Simmo Murphy etc...not hiot and miss from the draft.

moshe25 · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:23 am **Posts:** 11671

grrofunger wrote:

2 wins 1 loss

Good result.

Yep..

That's what I reckon.

Coach B · **Joined:** Mon May 23, 2005 9:26 am **Posts:** 88

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/08/28/i ... t-rebuild/

Interesting take on how we should play this offseason.

CB

doofdoof · **Joined:** Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm **Posts:** 2251

Coach B wrote:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/08/28/impatient-carlton-risk-derailing-a-great-rebuild/

Interesting take on how we should play this offseason.

CB

absolutely agree that drafting is a better investment than trading. if you listed our top 10 players how many of them have we traded in?
fingers crossed we find a good balance this off season

Sidefx · **Joined:** Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:55 pm **Posts:** 5918

Coach B wrote:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/08/28/impatient-carlton-risk-derailing-a-great-rebuild/

Interesting take on how we should play this offseason.

CB

Probably the best written article I've read about our position at the moment. Unbiased and factually on point. :clap:

I especially like the following:

Quote:

However, it’s a course of action that meant it was always going to take a while for Carlton to begin moving back up the ladder. Their drafting has been solidly good, but not so exceptional as to buck the laws of list management.

Despite this, it’s my perception that the Blues have become a bit impatient for that rise up the ladder to happen. This was seen in the decision to axe Brendon Bolton halfway through the season, after he achieved just one win in the early part of the year.

David Teague was able to net Carlton six more wins for the year which is exactly what the Blues want, and no one is going to say that winning is bad. However, he did it primarily by putting Carlton’s senior veterans back into more prominent roles in the team.

I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. Bolton’s strategy of making the kids play the most important roles was clearly not working, and now Carlton’s youth can get the chance to develop under a bit less scrutiny and with a bit more positive momentum.

But, that being the case, I would argue it’s a mistake to believe Carlton’s young list is ready to ‘pop’ in the kind of way the Brisbane’s has in 2019. However, I get the impression that many Carlton fans, and probably those in power at the club, feel differently.

If the Blues were landing Coniglio as their equivalent to Brisbane bringing in Lachie Neale, then there’d be a case to feel differently. But they’re not, and while I feel like Jack Martin and Tom Papley coming in would improve the team next year, I’m sceptical that they would do so enough to make it worthwhile.

Carlton need a small forward? There are small forwards in the draft, and the Blues have time enough on their hands to go down that route instead. The draft is historically a better investment than trading, the only reason to trade is if you need impact now. Carlton want it, but they don’t need it.

I wasn't really excited for this off season (compared to the last 3 years) as I already had doubts we would get Cogs and now nothing else looks as good as he would've for a free hit.

I was all for trading our first pick, but after reading this I now think we should use it in the draft instead to address either, our ruck or midfield depth issues.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:18 pm

doofdoof wrote:

Coach B wrote:

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/08/28/impatient-carlton-risk-derailing-a-great-rebuild/

Interesting take on how we should play this offseason.

CB

absolutely agree that drafting is a better investment than trading. if you listed our top 10 players how many of them have we traded in?
fingers crossed we find a good balance this off season

Hawthorn and Geelong and Richmond would argue the opposite and they have won GF's with their foreign legion.

After the Judd era with No 1 picks Murphy Gibbs Kreuzer already secured, Carlton found itself led by a coach who had no idea called Malthouse and Carlton has been languishing on the bottom of the ladder ever since. Not as a destination club. The kids didnt live to our expectations and it was obvious Judd needed more help from seasoned players not kids. Poor bastard had to carry the team.

The point here is that Carlton haven't been a destination club since the time Judd, who was traded-in star, and better than all 3 of the No 1 picks we got from the draft, and arguably better than 2 or 3 of them combined. Trading in good players are more of a guarantee of success than from the draft if you look at Judd v No 1 picks we had.

We haven't got any stars traded in because we haven't been a Destination club since Judd. Simple.

Things have changed 180 degrees since the Teague Train got started. We are a Destination club because we are attractive. The stars from other clubs see Carlton has a plethora of young upcoming stars and all we need is some experienced, seasoned players in an age bracket we are bereft of to take us the Finals and possibly Flag 17. Everyone knows that's been our plan since Malthouse got sacked. We are in a better situation now than we have been since Judd to attract the type of players we need.

Carlton's phones are ringing from player managers and good players who are interested in what we have brewing after years of accumulating high pick draftees. They know we need 3-4 very good players to fill our needs for sustained success. We do not need any more young kids to develop at this time: ask Cripps, ask any of the few senior players we have in our best 22. I don't want Cripps to be carrying players, like Judd did, who might become stars and when Simmo and Murph are gone, I sure hope there's more senior players around that just cripps.

To answer your question, Docherty, Jones, Plowman, Marchbank, McGovern, Setterfield and Newman are players we have traded in and imo there's an argument that could be made for all being a top 10 player for us at some stage during the year. Some handy players there. Most will play in our 17th Flag

Its been said we need a couple of more seasons of development for our exiting crop of kids, along with that freak Walsh, and fill the gaps with ready made players will see us well on our way fighting for our 17th flag.

Plus need ready made players instead of kids replacing our veterans in the next year or 2 in Simmo, Murphy Kreuzer.

Kids can't fill all these gaps if we aim to contest for flags from 2021. Getting ready made good players for next 2 years will.

After that, we can go back to the draft again imo.

AIRCAV · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:24 pm

Article makes some valid points. Key has to be free agents. If we can’t get the FA we want, I’d prefer we don’t trade early picks.

List Management 2020

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