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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:29 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
The stats are literally on this page, and do not suggest he is at all a liability. They compare favourably with rucks of his style (Grundy, Martin, etc) when he is afforded the same game time spread.



In 5 of the 6 games highlighted, he took 1 or less marks for the game Jim. Nowhere near good enough when he's averaging over 70% game time.
Kreuz isnt good enough to play as a tap ruckman without making a contribution around the ground or up forward. I love his workmate and his effort but he needs to add more to his game.

With regard to comparing Kruezer with Grundy and Martin, which aspects are you seeing that he compares favourably? Most areas of significance I'm looking at, both players have him covered. :?


2 scoring involvements and no goal assists in 6 games
The only stat that matters IMO (and yes, it's a subjective one) is Impact
Matthew Kruezer's impact of late is non existent

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:34 pm 
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www.blueseum.org
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The Blueseum wrote:
http://www.blueseum.org/Upcoming+Milestones

We make it that Simmo will hit 256 games this week, overtaking Brett Ratten as our 10th most played Blue.

FtB



Picked up by carlton:

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2016-0 ... ues-top-10

Congrats Simmo...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:34 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Bring in SOJ!!!!!

Collingwood's big men will likely target Levi because of what he did to them last game, and we should play that to our advantage.

Walker has been in good form recently (6 goals in 2 games!) and him and SOJ could provide handy targets up forward and use Lamb as the sneaky.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:00 am 
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Bruce Doull
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99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
The stats are literally on this page, and do not suggest he is at all a liability. They compare favourably with rucks of his style (Grundy, Martin, etc) when he is afforded the same game time spread.



In 5 of the 6 games highlighted, he took 1 or less marks for the game Jim. Nowhere near good enough when he's averaging over 70% game time.
Kreuz isnt good enough to play as a tap ruckman without making a contribution around the ground or up forward. I love his workmate and his effort but he needs to add more to his game.

With regard to comparing Kruezer with Grundy and Martin, which aspects are you seeing that he compares favourably? Most areas of significance I'm looking at, both players have him covered. :?


2 scoring involvements and no goal assists in 6 games
The only stat that matters IMO (and yes, it's a subjective one) is Impact
Matthew Kruezer's impact of late is non existent

Firstly, BV's points: Kreuzer could be used as a hit up target through transition, and I don't think anyone other than Levi and Lobb could take pack marks with the up and under long kicks we deliver when our short and medium options are cut off.

GWS played a zone that forced us to go long or take a long switch option, and it murdered our F50 entries last week. Kreuzer and Levi are the solution to that, and against GWS' zone, it would open up lead options for other forwards, who don't seem to be leading at the ball carrier in and around the corridor inside 50. I get that zones are set up to prevent that, but ours seem rarer than hen's teeth rather than restricted.

As for the stats listed there 99prelim, that would be scoring assists, not involvements, the difference being one is goals or behinds where you directly fed the ball to the scorer, versus being involved in a chain of possession that lead to a score. Kreuzer has heaps of score involvements this season, and I'm happy to pull the data from the AFL app premium stats if you need further confirmation of that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:27 am 
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Harry Vallence
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SOJ time. I hear things.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:21 am 
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formerly Army the Wonderkid
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Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
SOJ time. I hear things.


You hear things randomly and weirdly or hear things from actual people close to the football club?

Either way I hope you're right. I want to see some real forwards in the team.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:44 pm 
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formerly BlueRob
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SOJ ... Son Of Jo or Son Of Jimmy?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:08 pm 
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Robert Walls

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jimmae wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
The stats are literally on this page, and do not suggest he is at all a liability. They compare favourably with rucks of his style (Grundy, Martin, etc) when he is afforded the same game time spread.



In 5 of the 6 games highlighted, he took 1 or less marks for the game Jim. Nowhere near good enough when he's averaging over 70% game time.
Kreuz isnt good enough to play as a tap ruckman without making a contribution around the ground or up forward. I love his workmate and his effort but he needs to add more to his game.

With regard to comparing Kruezer with Grundy and Martin, which aspects are you seeing that he compares favourably? Most areas of significance I'm looking at, both players have him covered. :?


2 scoring involvements and no goal assists in 6 games
The only stat that matters IMO (and yes, it's a subjective one) is Impact
Matthew Kruezer's impact of late is non existent

Firstly, BV's points: Kreuzer could be used as a hit up target through transition, and I don't think anyone other than Levi and Lobb could take pack marks with the up and under long kicks we deliver when our short and medium options are cut off.

GWS played a zone that forced us to go long or take a long switch option, and it murdered our F50 entries last week. Kreuzer and Levi are the solution to that, and against GWS' zone, it would open up lead options for other forwards, who don't seem to be leading at the ball carrier in and around the corridor inside 50. I get that zones are set up to prevent that, but ours seem rarer than hen's teeth rather than restricted.

As for the stats listed there 99prelim, that would be scoring assists, not involvements, the difference being one is goals or behinds where you directly fed the ball to the scorer, versus being involved in a chain of possession that lead to a score. Kreuzer has heaps of score involvements this season, and I'm happy to pull the data from the AFL app premium stats if you need further confirmation of that.


He's kicked 2 goals and 0 behinds in 6 games. Call it what you want, but for someone who is not really a bonafide ruckman (in the classic sense), his scoreboard contribution is poor

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:10 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 3561
jimmae wrote:
99prelim wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
jimmae wrote:
The stats are literally on this page, and do not suggest he is at all a liability. They compare favourably with rucks of his style (Grundy, Martin, etc) when he is afforded the same game time spread.



In 5 of the 6 games highlighted, he took 1 or less marks for the game Jim. Nowhere near good enough when he's averaging over 70% game time.
Kreuz isnt good enough to play as a tap ruckman without making a contribution around the ground or up forward. I love his workmate and his effort but he needs to add more to his game.

With regard to comparing Kruezer with Grundy and Martin, which aspects are you seeing that he compares favourably? Most areas of significance I'm looking at, both players have him covered. :?


2 scoring involvements and no goal assists in 6 games
The only stat that matters IMO (and yes, it's a subjective one) is Impact
Matthew Kruezer's impact of late is non existent

Firstly, BV's points: Kreuzer could be used as a hit up target through transition, and I don't think anyone other than Levi and Lobb could take pack marks with the up and under long kicks we deliver when our short and medium options are cut off.

GWS played a zone that forced us to go long or take a long switch option, and it murdered our F50 entries last week. Kreuzer and Levi are the solution to that, and against GWS' zone, it would open up lead options for other forwards, who don't seem to be leading at the ball carrier in and around the corridor inside 50. I get that zones are set up to prevent that, but ours seem rarer than hen's teeth rather than restricted.

As for the stats listed there 99prelim, that would be scoring assists, not involvements, the difference being one is goals or behinds where you directly fed the ball to the scorer, versus being involved in a chain of possession that lead to a score. Kreuzer has heaps of score involvements this season, and I'm happy to pull the data from the AFL app premium stats if you need further confirmation of that.


He's kicked 2 goals and 0 behinds in 6 games. Call it what you want, but for someone who is not really a bonafide ruckman (in the classic sense), his scoreboard contribution is poor

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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I find it really difficult to comment on any of these selection threads because I know that I simply can't have all the information to make an informed decision. But, alas, I bumble in blindly armed only with an opinion and my arrogance.

I'm also of the view that Kruez is past his best, but Bolts has one eye on the present, and one on the future. Phillips needs game time in the firsts because Kruez is not durable, and may only have another season or two in him. Right now, Phillips is the only one who can take Kruez's place if/when he isn't available. Whether Phillips is the long term solution can only be determined with games anyway, so Kruez and Phillips it will be, barring injury till the end of this season. With our future in mind, an argument could be made for leaving Kruez out entirely, and playing Casboult as 2nd ruck, and playing another midfielder. This could improve our poor clearances and contested possession with another mid to rotate through. If winning games now the priority, however, Kruez and Phillip's would be more competitive, which is what we're seeing prioritised by the MC. And no doubt from me that a winning culture is more important than any draft concessions. Ref: Melbourne & tanking.

I love these blues and always have, even through the last 10 years where things have been pretty damn average. So to say anything critical of the players seems like I'm backstabbing. I could never say it to their faces because I just love them too much. But hard decisions need to be made. I see a few criticising Johnny Barker's midfield setups? The buck has to stop with Bolt's, so if the Clearance coach (or whatever his title is...) isn't doing his job, I'd expect the senior coach to step in and take care of it. Identify it as structural, and fix it, or blame the players and tell SoS what we need and who needs replacing. If Bark's is not capable of managing midfield structure's (and I would have no idea if he is, or isn't), then he has to be replaced. No doubt. If it's not him, lets sort out the clearances and contested possessions. Oh, and all the other stuff...I know, year 1 of the rebuild. lol.

As for hard decisions, I'd probably have to take 1AW out after his 200th. Tough call after the GWS game, but I think the 3 goal return was flattering and saw him spectating. Loved his hit in the Brisbane game but think we've got to let him make way for the next generation of players that need experience at senior level. If for no other reason than to prove that they are not capable and should be traded/delisted at our earliest convenience. We could also think of it as nursing a senior body in preparation for a better tilt at next year. SOJ would be the replacement for 1AW, or if his body is not ready for senior AFL footy like some say, let KJ play 3-4 games and see what he does with the opportunity. If he hasn't held his spot, maybe Curnow will be ready to step in and take the spot. McKay might not get a chance this year, but I'd love to see him get a game or two at the end of the season, just to give him a taste, leading into another pre-season.

I'm not interested in turning Weitering into the next Henderson, so lets just leave him in defence.

What I find hardest is actually finding players that I'm comfortable removing from the team. Arguments can be made for many. Daisy had a low impact game last week, although I only watched the game once. Stats may make me look like a fool. Could Whiley come in and offer more contested ball? White is everyone's whipping boy, but he really played his role last week. Should that be rewarded, or do we send him back to reserves if a suitable matchup cannot be found. The pressure mounts on the MC to bring in SOJ, so White seems the obvious one to drop for the occasion but I would leave him in. I've really strayed off topic, so sorry bout that. But I really hope we can see some of the players that haven't had their chance. Even if it means someone like Tuohy taking a 3-4 week break for someone like DVR to play across Half Back. What about Buckley in for Matthew Wright?

If the policy is pressure above all else, this should be a non-negotiable and the players should know that if they don't bring that intensity, that they will be replaced. The issue may well be the lack of like for like replacements available to maintain the team structure that Bolts is teaching.

I'm really excited to see the last 9 games, knowing that there will be some fresh faces, and that it is only a good thing for the future. Another trade period and lots of hope.

Go Blues

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:14 am 
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Robert Walls
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puff piece in the papers about Murphy backing in Silvagni to play.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:34 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Those who are calling for White to be delisted, saw last week why he hasn't been.
Players who are versatile and give you their best every week are more valuable than players who turn up when they feel like it and then give you 100% in little cameos.

100% of 6 is worth more than 60% of 9

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:35 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Collingwood have been playing three big tall forwards lately so I can see White going back to defence to help out as an extra man up in marking contests. They don't really have a dangerous rebounding defender so he probably isn't needed up forward this week but we'll see.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:37 am 
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Craig Bradley

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Fasolo and Moore were the forwards who hurt us last time. Hopefully they don't come up.

Need to pay more attention to Sidebottom than we did last time - especially given our midfield issues lately.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:39 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Bluey44 wrote:
puff piece in the papers about Murphy backing in Silvagni to play.


agree

SOJ is not ready for senior selection

if he is selected to play it will suggest that the club is desperate for cash to increase home attendances - kids are free entry note


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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a) Disagree re Silvagni. If he is selected it will be b/c he has played well enough and done what was asked of him in the VFL to deserve a TASTE which will help with his development. Either he will play for 1-3 weeks and then go back to work on some things a bit more or he will lift and earn his place for longer.

b) This is a totally different situation to Jaksch, where Bolton is keenly aware of the assets KJ needs to demonstrate in order to make a go of another opportunity at senior level. Without these (including desire, intensity, consistency) then all the potential in the world won't help and he will just be wasting his own time and the club's. Therefore, I don't think we'll see KJ elevated "just to see whether or not he can make a go of it". He'll either be selected on merit, or he won't.

c) White is earning his spot most weeks; doing what is asked of him and providing the team with a bit of much needed grunt and flexibility. He will probably be replaced in time but only when someone else can do better. All teams have good, strong, honest hard workers who complement the stars. And we don't really have that many stars (yet...).

d) I am not as pessimistic as some about Walker. He has kicked 3 goals more than once in the past few weeks and will be getting fitter and more confident each week. He adds some spark and also flexibility. I'd keep him in for now. Also, I can't see him being dropped before his 200th, given the low consequences of keeping him in until then. I suspect he will stay in the team for the remainder of the season and will play on again next year, either earning his spot in the seniors or as back up if others overtake him.

e) Kruezer has clearly not become the champion we were hoping for with our no.1 pick. However, in addition to the stats quoted above, he has saved at least a couple of goals over the past few weeks by chasing opposition midfielders half the field, keeping the pressure on when others did not and resulting in skewed forward entry kicks. Even with his dodgy knees and feet. He also keeps the pressure on at stoppages pushing opposition players and keeping the ball moving forward, without earning a stat. This is worth something, even when he doesn't win the tap.
He also gets his hands on quite a few forward entry kicks where many other ruckmen/forwards do not. Sadly, he still has hard hands and they spill out almost all the time. Like Casboult needing to improve his kicking, if Kruezer softened his hands in marking contests, his value would increase significantly.
So, in my view, he is ALMOST a very strong player. Yes, the verdict must be that he is not what we hoped and probably won't ever be. But if he can just polish up a couple of things (esp marking) he then becomes a top 5-8 ruckman.

f) I am still excited to see our young guys develop both in the seniors and VFL for the remainder of the year. I can see some of those who have not yet played AFL getting a taste (e.g. SOSOS, DVR), others earning a call up through hard work and consistency (Jaksch, Whiley etc...) and still others continuing to develop in the VFL (e.g. C.Curnow, McKay - McKay unlikely to play AFL this year, Curnow depends on how knocked about he was by Glandular...).

g) I'm hoping/expecting to win another 3-4 matches*. If we finish with 9-10 wins for the year, it is a big step on the road to success.
Then we need to find a way to get another 2 first round picks + a good recruit or two (e.g. Tomlinson?) and we continue on our way.. :-)
* I'm expecting to beat 2-3 of Coll, StK, Bris, Melb and Ess; and perhaps sneak a surprise win over one of Adel, WC, Syd or Haw...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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jimmae wrote:
Firstly, BV's points: Kreuzer could be used as a hit up target through transition


A hit up target through transition? What does that mean?

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Last edited by Blue Vain on Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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It means, we are moving the ball and we kick to MK who is on a lead and marks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:18 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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Paddycripps wrote:
It means, we are moving the ball and we kick to MK who is on a lead and marks.


that has never happened


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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must make reid accountable we can not let him patrol the backline taking those marks when we go the long bomb (again)


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