Maybe the list peaked during Ratten's time?

Comparing 2010/11 to this year:

Judd gone from a 10 to a 7
Murph from 9 to 7
Carrazzo injured
Simpson from 8 to 6
Scotland from 8 to 6
Kreuzer, Hampson, Warnock Robinson treading water or gone backwards
Lucas and Yarran flaky
Gibbs good but no impact as a mid yet.

The only player to improve in our midfield group that isn't a fringe rookie lister (they're filling gaps at this stage) is McLean, and his best work is done outside the action.

Our midfield peaked 2 or 3 years ago.

Henderson is the one player outside the middle who has improved his output from promising to consistently excellent in recent years (Walker and Garlett were excellent in '11).

You might say it's the coach's responsibility to get the best out of the likes of Murphy, Kreuzer and Yarran. True, but the decline of Judd, Simpson and Scotland and lack of emergence of new quality midfielders really hurts.

I said in 2012 pre-season (I think) that the list has stagnated, and the club was too complacent to do anything about it, to the extent of re-contracting obvious dead wood. We need to bring on Bootma, Menzel, Graham, Buckley and give chances to Watson and McCarthy etc, then add a stack of new kids next year.

Hopefully we can do so in a measured way that keeps us competitive so the kids are coming up in a good environment. Mick has done this at Collingwood. I hope he's thinking about setting a course for the next 5 years, not just flogging the same horses to jag 8th on the ladder.

Fair points Punter but we can trade contracted players. It happens all the time. I am not even talking about delisting players.

We didn't even front on trade week and Mick talked up the list . I think his ego got the better of him. That or he just didn't care and it was all about the book.

Blind Freddy - "They are flaky Mick. They have been for years"
Mick - "Not under me"

I'll move on. I will still be entertained against rubbish teams. We might pull of a good win here and there but nothing will really change until October 2013.

Eighth is better than ninth and tenth for the year unless you need one higher spot in the draft pecking order.
Yes he will rebuild the list next year with 2-3 free agents a couple of draftees and then get the best out of the rest of the players he has kept, call it his list and be lauded a super coach.

Unfortunately instant success in professional sport,( with a salary cap in place) is wishful thinking,postecoglou had to put standards in place at Brisbane in his 1st yr at the helm ,the same at victory.He will get the mix of players right so they challenge this year as he did in Bris roar.He kept the ones that can see the light,those that did not got turfed out.
I envisage the same will happen here.
It makes it harder when you have a draft and the incompetence shown by rats together with our recruiters, part time development coach (farcical) and throwing money at under performing wooden tops willy nilly.
The structures were not right when mm got here,he will be judged on next year onwards not this year.
Although I can see improvement in players who otherwise probably would have been gone last year,I am glad he never pulled the trigger.
I expect gradual improvement as the year goes on, and hope we do have a crack at the finals but whether we can change the mental problems with some of our players is another thing.

8th is better than 10th, definitely! But if the extra wins are gained at the expense of developing and assessing the list it's a waste of time.

IMO the list we have is more than capable of playing in the finals. No excuses for the Super Duper coach and some really dumb coaching decisions he has made this year.

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!

Tank.....tank....tank....we need more top 10 picks.

We are not on the same topic trigger.
I’m not suggesting instant success, just to improve on our standards would be appreciated.
Mental fragility, skill, work ethic or goal kicking, anything would be a good start.
Our players are not retards, they unlike a lot of other current clubs players have played finals for the last 3 out of 4 years for a reason.
What Malthouse keeps or cuts is visible at year’s end till that time I want to see standards increase to justify what our 1 mill a year is getting us this year compared with what has been achieved in the past 5 years with an under achieving coach.
So far I’m not sure the money is well spent. If this is the case then we should have kept ratten for another year kept our 2 mill (turnover) and let Malthouse build a list from scratch next year.

Would be more than happy to start tanking as of now

Your list Armani.
Have you noticed how our key drivers are the ones that have been played out of position and regressed?
Win/loss isn’t important just the process.

Being in a game and winning a game are two different things.

Sick of being in a game, the players need to stand up and win for a change.

Look he has no excuse to put some steel in the flakiness.
And he will....
he wont be signing up a bunch of duds on multiple year contracts.

May i ask you why would anyone sign Davies and Joseph on 2 year contracts?
Would anyone have poached them?
If they were poached would the team go downhill?

Why would a coach keep going along with a bunch of half bank flanker types?
How can a coach be on the helm for 5 years and six weeks and not identify any kind of leadership?
How could the list be have multiple players approaching their sundown and their replacements be rookies?

Just answer...im all ears.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

whos out of position and regressed????

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I get the impression here that a few TCer's don't like Mick all that much.

Yes some like Ratts... poor ratts cant get a coach.

now lets get back to business.

While some of you were saying we were too young... and we must be patient... our team got old.

Well the mids did... and we have little pushing through.

Thats the thing isnt it???... if you dont use it.. you lose it!!...

but we certainly used Judd eh??.... now HE can be our midfield enforcer when we get ourselves another judd.

the team fell away with the decline of chris judd...ad now we have to stabilise it and add some to it.

cos what we have right now... is an oldish midfield supported by murph and a few rookies.

Thats increrible list management.. after an unprecedented number of early picks we were given....

we dont have leadership... but we have a massive amount of hbfers to choose from for the hbfer roles.

ratts?? he was a genius!!!

great thinker of the game....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Unless our coach coaches Norwood in the lower divisions of suburban footy... some people dont like flag caches.. multiple gf appearance coaches.. and a guy that coached a swag of top 4 finishes.

one eliminational final is fantastic for them....
Norwood ... suburban footy.... and he will never coach another afl team again...enough said...!!

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I think it's more people annoyed with Carlton's savior complex; get the cheque book out, throw some cash around at a big name - not go through any proper process to appoint the senior coach.

Pagan - cheque book
Ratten - club legend etc
Malthouse - cheque book

Such little thought...things might turn out ok but this club rarely gives itself the best chance.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

What has Mick ever done for Carlton that would make us like him ?

Drew with St Kilda, then flogged them?

Lost to Brisbane in consecutive GF's?

He stopped Collingwood from winning a premiership for 10 years ...

He stuffed up 10 years of coaching at the Bullies ... that must have helped us a bit surely ...

He brought Wiley with him when he came to Carlton ... someone who seems to know what he is talking about.

Now there are 3 positives. Never say I don't say nice things about MM's coaching abilities ...

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I am as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!!!