The issues with saying that Warnock was more developed (when traded in) than Kreuz and Hammer are:

He had only been on a list for 3 years, where Hammer had 2 years, Jacobs 2 years and Kreuzer 1.
He was physically underdeveloped, even compared with his colleagues.
He had serious injury issues when traded, and we were told by the club a) that they didn't expect him to play much in 2009 and b) that he would blossom in his 3rd year at Carlton

In light of all that, it makes little sense to justify the Warnock trade as "getting someone to carry the ruck while Kreuzer and Hammer develop". Which is EXACTLY what we needed.

If that is the kind of rationale the club would put forward, it's no wonder Cazzesman has declined to explain

IMO what started us chasing Nockers was a Carlton home game at Colonial Stadium vs Freo in 2007 when Sandilands was out injured. We expected to win the rucks easily even though our rucks were pretty average. Nockers gave our rucks a hiding and Freo won IIRC.

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Bawditawaba

Ah, the Heaver Effect.

Or Charles? Think your right Heaver was first.

Well, I can at least say the fact that people make so called extreme posts gives everyone an 'out' to make excuses. Call it what you like, go through the 'every club makes mistakes' mantra all you like (as if that basic fact excuses everything) but when you weigh everything up, our list management has been unacceptable for an AFL club.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Don't do this!!!
Do Richmond
It's funnier
They could of had Franklin, Pavlich and Cloke as their forward line

fact is Warnock is average at best when he is fit
And Jacobs may be All Australian


Sums it up

Marchesani Effect preceeded the Heaver Effect by 11 years.

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With 12 seconds to go in the 1947 Grand Final Fred Stafford snaps a left footed goal. Carlton beat Essendon* by one point..

Number 17 in Carlton's 25 Greatest Moments.

Spot on Freddie -Marchesani played about 16 good games for Fitzroy - one against us and we couldnt help ourselves

Dangerfield? Never in the picture. We missed out on Cale Morton at 3. Talk about opportunity lost.

Heaver kicked 50 goals for us in a grand final year, far from the worst pick up we've had.

Coulda woulda shoulda oughtta shuttupa ufaces

Where talking about Melbourne right

Heaver was ok for a bit, definitely.

And Frddy's right... The Marchesani Effect probably kicked it all off.

Melbourne? We traded pick 3? Until the recruitment team work out the kinks with the flux capacitor, then you can't add Dangerfield.

I will give you Masten. Morton or Masten. You choose?

Hindsight drafting threads are the worst

dare i mention NAB rising star Talia?? didn't we need big strong backmen and we went for another mid?

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one you knock back is one you never have

After reading this in the Age today, i wondered why they didn't pick him before Lucas if they thought so highly of him?

"Talia, the grandson of Bulldogs premiership player Harvey Stevens, found it difficult to leave his large, close family when he was drafted from the Calder Cannons, but displayed loyalty even before he got his big break, re-signing after the team he grew up barracking for, Carlton, tried to get him back home as part of the Sam Jacobs trade deal two years ago."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/b ... z25eShCAh3

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one you knock back is one you never have

Warnock was traded in (for Suban and Bucovaz if you want to go down the path of identifying who Freo drafted in exchange) while we had Jacobs as an unproven rookie, Kreuzer and Hampson as kids and coming off the back of 5 years with only Barnaby French as a bona fide ruckman. Our ruck stocks are now set for the next 8 years ... I'm not sure why everyone wants to dismantle this part of our list which we have done well to bolster.

Kane Lucas was expected to go higher in the 09 draft (top 10) but fell to us when Port elected to go with Andrew Moore (how did that work out for them???). Essendon* stuck with Melksham (questionable selection at best) and Melbourne went with Gysberts (nuff said). In his final WAFL game before being drafted he had 30 possessions and took 11 marks and was widely accepted as being 'ready to go'. Whether we have developed him properly is probably the key to this argument and why ultimately Ratten is no longer at the club. Just blaming the recruiters is overlooking that these so-called errors are made all the time on draft day by every recruiter at every club (when you look back 5 years later).

Can't believe I just posted in the worst thread ever.

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In WADA we trust

I see this thread and keep thinking of this ad:

[youtube]owGykVbfgUE[/youtube]

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29 different attributes,
And only 7 that you like;
20 ways to see the world,
Or 20 ways to start a fight.

ah well we all succomb to temptation - reminds me of one of my old man's favourite sayings "If the dog hadn't stopped to scratch himself we would have had rabbit for dinner....................."

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one you knock back is one you never have