R9: Carlton v Hawthorn (after match discussion)

Michael Jezz · **Joined:** Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:52 pm **Posts:** 2044

Cazzesman wrote:

Michael Jezz wrote:

If ever a game indicated that our recruiting policy needs to target some more key position players it was this one. To paraphrase a great point by Tim Watson. Öur game is too reliant on run off half back by Walker, Bower & Lucas. They create quick transition for Garlett, Betts and Yarran. When they get injured our scoring options dry up. We don't have the big key forwards to provide that alternative, so when the ball moves slowly garlett, yarran and to an extent betts are limited. We also are a big backman short to play on Roughead, Franklin, Brown,Dawes & Cloke. They beat us every time

Media commentators are just like knee jerk reactionary supporters. They change their attitude week to week. If we still had Fev we would be 1 dimensional when we didn't win. Now we have more options it is the HBF's fault if we don't win. :screwy:

If we had run and worked harder with Fev we would have won more games than we lose. Likewise with the current setup. No run, no win for most teams, including us.

We are not a Bigman short necessarily, we are are a few big men injured in Bower and Austin. A guy like Buddy is a freak and he will cut you up if he is on. Roughy is a tough to control, just like Josh Kennedy is now and Hendo will be.

Regards Cazzesman

Caz,

Astounded by your reaction to a pretty insightful Tim Watson Comment. Bower is a running back in my opinion who can play tall. Austin-maybe. If we get beaten it is by big bodied forwards. At the other end of the ground don't forget Santi and Waite will be nearing the end in 3 years, that leaves Hendersen, Keuzer (if he was allowed to play CHF) and hopefully some of the rookies. If you believe, like I do that you need some KPPs to win a premiership, then yesterday showed we are not going to win one with our current list.

camel · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 12:14 pm

Well that stands to reason. We have to cut three players at the end of the year (or whatever it is) and we won't be winning a flag in 2010. :razz:

The basics of our list structure are currently sound. A few tweaks here and there will help, yes. But that will count for nowt if we don't address mental toughness deficiencies, which were largely to blame for our poor effort yesterday.

Here's some of Ratten's presser -> http://sportal.com.au/mediaplayer/audio ... atten-8161

Virgin Blue · **Joined:** Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm **Posts:** 3021

Cazzesman wrote:

Michael Jezz wrote:

If ever a game indicated that our recruiting policy needs to target some more key position players it was this one. To paraphrase a great point by Tim Watson. Öur game is too reliant on run off half back by Walker, Bower & Lucas. They create quick transition for Garlett, Betts and Yarran. When they get injured our scoring options dry up. We don't have the big key forwards to provide that alternative, so when the ball moves slowly garlett, yarran and to an extent betts are limited. We also are a big backman short to play on Roughead, Franklin, Brown,Dawes & Cloke. They beat us every time

Media commentators are just like knee jerk reactionary supporters. They change their attitude week to week. If we still had Fev we would be 1 dimensional when we didn't win. Now we have more options it is the HBF's fault if we don't win. :screwy:

If we had run and worked harder with Fev we would have won more games than we lose. Likewise with the current setup. No run, no win for most teams, including us.

We are not a Bigman short necessarily, we are are a few big men injured in Bower and Austin. A guy like Buddy is a freak and he will cut you up if he is on. Roughy is a tough to control, just like Josh Kennedy is now and Hendo will be.

Regards Cazzesman

Let's not put too much pressure on the lad

exsing · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 1:40 pm

Virgin Blue wrote:

Let's not put too much pressure on the lad

Hehehe...CMan can't win. Asks for patience for the kids and he gets blasted for making shit recruitment decisions. Says a kid will be a star, and he gets told to not put too much pressure on the kid. :lol:

anfield · **Joined:** Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:47 pm **Posts:** 580

We needed to beat these snipers to get the monkey off our back but we've had a huge month really. I'd have taken 4 out of 5 wins including last years GF's and the 2 SA clubs. So to put that in perspective we've been to SA twice and won and also beat the top 2 teams or beat 3 of the top 4 when most had written us off.

Injuries/suspensions didn't help but it was just one of those days but geez I hate Clarkson and his team of thugs. Ratts implied we were a bit soft in the press so Im hoping we blitz the Eagles next week

Kouta · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 3:03 pm

Michael Jezz wrote:

Astounded by your reaction to a pretty insightful Tim Watson Comment. Bower is a running back in my opinion who can play tall. Austin-maybe. If we get beaten it is by big bodied forwards. At the other end of the ground don't forget Santi and Waite will be nearing the end in 3 years, that leaves Hendersen, Keuzer (if he was allowed to play CHF) and hopefully some of the rookies. If you believe, like I do that you need some KPPs to win a premiership, then yesterday showed we are not going to win one with our current list.

Hawthorn won a flag with Hodge, Brown, Croad and Gilham handling the KPP and punching above their weight.

Yet you believe we lack the cattle in Bower, Jamison, Austin, Walker, White, Thornton, etc, etc. :?:

club29 · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 3:53 pm

Michael Jezz wrote:

Caz,

Astounded by your reaction to a pretty insightful Tim Watson Comment. Bower is a running back in my opinion who can play tall. Austin-maybe. If we get beaten it is by big bodied forwards. At the other end of the ground don't forget Santi and Waite will be nearing the end in 3 years, that leaves Hendersen, Keuzer (if he was allowed to play CHF) and hopefully some of the rookies. If you believe, like I do that you need some KPPs to win a premiership, then yesterday showed we are not going to win one with our current list.

Bower has done well on Buddy and Cloke in the past and rewaldt.

I am sure two of Satanta, Waite and Henda can do what Mooney and Hawkins did last year.

We got done yesterday because we didnt put in enough effort. We were not switched on. In my opinion we have the KPP's on our list. the list just has to develop, mature and harden up so they can bring their best week after week.
I still like us with 2 talls back plus walker, 2 talls forward and the two rucks. The rest of the team made up of an assortment of onballer types.

bluehammer · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 4:00 pm

club29 wrote:

Michael Jezz wrote:

Caz,

Astounded by your reaction to a pretty insightful Tim Watson Comment. Bower is a running back in my opinion who can play tall. Austin-maybe. If we get beaten it is by big bodied forwards. At the other end of the ground don't forget Santi and Waite will be nearing the end in 3 years, that leaves Hendersen, Keuzer (if he was allowed to play CHF) and hopefully some of the rookies. If you believe, like I do that you need some KPPs to win a premiership, then yesterday showed we are not going to win one with our current list.

Bower has done well on Buddy and Cloke in the past and rewaldt.

It's Hreeeeeeeeewaldt

Juddy&theKruezers · **Joined:** Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:12 pm **Posts:** 4426

Stefchook · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 am **Posts:** 8166

hollywood43 wrote:

We never beat these p**&%s it annoys me so bad. They physically bash us everytime.

This is not to defend what Waite did last week (and threatened to do in the weeks before that), but it does highlight the benefit in having players who play aggressively and push the boundaries of what's allowable (and sometimes even step over the limits). Hawks have had lots of players missing weeks from suspensions. But on the upside, it can provide great intimidatory value against younger and less aggressive opposition.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 6:08 pm

club29 wrote:

Michael Jezz wrote:

Caz,

Astounded by your reaction to a pretty insightful Tim Watson Comment. Bower is a running back in my opinion who can play tall. Austin-maybe. If we get beaten it is by big bodied forwards. At the other end of the ground don't forget Santi and Waite will be nearing the end in 3 years, that leaves Hendersen, Keuzer (if he was allowed to play CHF) and hopefully some of the rookies. If you believe, like I do that you need some KPPs to win a premiership, then yesterday showed we are not going to win one with our current list.

Bower has done well on Buddy and Cloke in the past and rewaldt.

I am sure two of Satanta, Waite and Henda can do what Mooney and Hawkins did last year.

We got done yesterday because we didnt put in enough effort. We were not switched on. In my opinion we have the KPP's on our list. the list just has to develop, mature and harden up so they can bring their best week after week.
I still like us with 2 talls back plus walker, 2 talls forward and the two rucks. The rest of the team made up of an assortment of onballer types.

We need Hendo and Setanta to show more mongrel.

Setanta is capable of it, but he didn't display anything of the sort yesterday, because if he did he'd be the only one (perhaps with the inclusion of Robbo)...but I mean 'real' mongrel. Stuff the opposition will have in the back of their mind.

Richo was quoted defining it as "fierce competitiveness". We had none of that on the weekend. I'm hoping it was fatigue which had set in.

The Normal One · **Joined:** Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:35 pm **Posts:** 20076

Interesting to read the Time On Ground results from this match.

The rotations had a major effect on the TOG tallied by the majority of our team, compared to the Hawks whose averages TOG was down for the majority of players.

http://www.prowess.com.au/pro-stats/rep ... ort_71.pdf

Tblues · **Joined:** Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:57 pm **Posts:** 151

Mark J wrote:

Rafalution wrote:

Pattern and result was set in the first 5mins.

Hawks were harder and won the contests and forced us to play slow wide football, exactly the style that brings us undone.

Third quarter was gutsy but you could see we would be run over in the last without any rotations on the bench. Hawks doubled our rotations by the way and set a new competition record.

Put this game in the vault with the Essendon* game on how NOT to play and lets move on to the Eagles with a debutant.

Should read "the pattern and result was set by Judd in the first 5 mins".
His disposal was deplorable......in fact his disposal is overrated...full stop. Sure he's a gun, but his skills are not elite, as they are made out to be. Ablett has him well and truly covered in that area.

Ahh his disposal is elite very much so. I could only count on 1 hand the amount of errors he has made and the have only been over the last few weeks. In my opinion they come from the amount of pressure he is under and if u take that into accound he is aa complete elite layer of the comp.

Blueboy_Dan · **Joined:** Sun May 08, 2005 1:09 am **Posts:** 5245

Highlight of the game was when Franklin kicked that goal from the boundary in the last, saw the tv cut to Melvey who burnt his "They know were coming" shirt in the stands

SurreyBlue · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am **Posts:** 10593

Had another look at the game and I hardly ever single any players out as such but I still maintain Betts and O'hAilpin cost us this game. They where both disappointing, especially in the 3rd. Really disappointed in Betts game inparticular and would hope he is really looking for redemption this week.

AK43 · **Joined:** Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1030

SurreyBlue wrote:

Had another look at the game and I hardly ever single any players out as such but I still maintain Betts and O'hAilpin cost us this game. They where both disappointing, especially in the 3rd. Really disappointed in Betts game inparticular and would hope he is really looking for redemption this week.

We were 39 points down at half time and down to 20 men. They both had shockers for sure but they had plenty of mates. Even if they had have kicked those goals we would have still been 2-3 goals down at three quarter time, and now down to 19 men. We were completely overrun in the last quarter - not excusing them, but in the end I don't think it made that much difference.

BigKev · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2010 10:17 am

Tblues wrote:

Mark J wrote:

Rafalution wrote:

Pattern and result was set in the first 5mins.

Hawks were harder and won the contests and forced us to play slow wide football, exactly the style that brings us undone.

Third quarter was gutsy but you could see we would be run over in the last without any rotations on the bench. Hawks doubled our rotations by the way and set a new competition record.

Put this game in the vault with the Essendon* game on how NOT to play and lets move on to the Eagles with a debutant.

Should read "the pattern and result was set by Judd in the first 5 mins".
His disposal was deplorable......in fact his disposal is overrated...full stop. Sure he's a gun, but his skills are not elite, as they are made out to be. Ablett has him well and truly covered in that area.

Ahh his disposal is elite very much so. I could only count on 1 hand the amount of errors he has made and the have only been over the last few weeks. In my opinion they come from the amount of pressure he is under and if u take that into accound he is aa complete elite layer of the comp.

I agree with Mark J. Judd, IMO, is the best contested possession winner in the league by some margin, but ... the number of times he either turns it over by hand or foot or misses a relatively straight-forward shot a goal shouldn't be ignored when assessing his overall on-field value.

I still think he's worth keeping though. :wink:

Bluey44 · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2010 10:34 am

Stefchook wrote:

hollywood43 wrote:

We never beat these p**&%s it annoys me so bad. They physically bash us everytime.

This is not to defend what Waite did last week (and threatened to do in the weeks before that), but it does highlight the benefit in having players who play aggressively and push the boundaries of what's allowable (and sometimes even step over the limits). Hawks have had lots of players missing weeks from suspensions. But on the upside, it can provide great intimidatory value against younger and less aggressive opposition.

I don't think Waite has been adding intimidation, I think he has been frustrated by his opponents and lashing out stupidly. Needs to channel it

Mark J · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2010 9:06 pm

A Hawk fan said to me today, that when he saw Eddie start the game in a long sleeve jumper, he knew we weren't on. I tend to agree...it was a great day. Did Eddie think he wouldn't have to do much? :yikes:

Mark J · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2010 9:07 pm

Tblues wrote:

Mark J wrote:

Rafalution wrote:

Pattern and result was set in the first 5mins.

Hawks were harder and won the contests and forced us to play slow wide football, exactly the style that brings us undone.

Third quarter was gutsy but you could see we would be run over in the last without any rotations on the bench. Hawks doubled our rotations by the way and set a new competition record.

Put this game in the vault with the Essendon* game on how NOT to play and lets move on to the Eagles with a debutant.

Should read "the pattern and result was set by Judd in the first 5 mins".
His disposal was deplorable......in fact his disposal is overrated...full stop. Sure he's a gun, but his skills are not elite, as they are made out to be. Ablett has him well and truly covered in that area.

Ahh his disposal is elite very much so. I could only count on 1 hand the amount of errors he has made and the have only been over the last few weeks. In my opinion they come from the amount of pressure he is under and if u take that into accound he is aa complete elite layer of the comp.

We'll agree to disagree on that one. :thumbsup:

R9: Carlton v Hawthorn (after match discussion)

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