I wouldn't say the Irish experiment has failed and I still think there is scope for it to get better.

Taller player always take longer to come on let alone those that do not have a background in the game. I have known kids go through 10 years of junior footy, have the size of Aisake but never get to his level.

Anyone missing a chunk of pre season is going to find the season tough. Go talk to suburban footballers and they will tell you the same.

I am not privy to what is happening behind the scenes but something tells me something has gone wrong with Aisake.

I would love to see him being put on the big stage and see what unfolds. Try him as a forward and see if the speed in which the ball comes into his area enhances his game.

I think we have forgotten that both Setanta and Aisake come from a hurling background and not Gaelic footy. This a distinct disadvantage

You can understand how T-bird, Jammo, Bower and Waitey would be ahead of him as Ratts preferred 4 down back. With 2 of the 4 out with injuries, heres Setantas opportunity to shine and convince Ratts that he can hold this back line together.

Lord hear Setantas prayer.

Carlton has improved this year to the extent that no one should be "gifted" games. It's a good thing that Setanta now has to compete for a spot.

It's not unfair to say that he has stalled a bit in his development. Maybe being thrown around the ground has contributed to this, I don't know. Ratts is of the opinion that he is a better forward and most disagree. This might be simply a matter of Ratt's seeing it as his "best fit". FWIW I think that 18 months or so ago, he was universally seen as a better forward, and not a "natural" backman.

I don't see it as fatal that he is not an automatic selection. At present, I don't think Setanta is in our best 22. That's not to say that he doesn't have a future. I think he will survive any cut at the end of the year. Every club needs back up players, and maybe that's Setanta's future. Whilst everyone thought (read: hoped) he would be a superstar, maybe he will just end up a handy player.

As for Aisake, I'd love him to play, but he needs to make an impact in the Magoos. His future is more clouded (particularly if we do chase Warnock). Even if he doesn't go on, I suspect that the club will give him a token game at some stage towards the end of the season anyway.

We all want them to be gun players, but don't blame the club if it doesn't happen. They were (and remain) a radical experiment.

Setanta showed enough in the first part of 2007 playing at fullback to be given more time. he was thrown in the ruck , because we didn't have anyone else , and then moved all around the paddock , and has lost it a bit. I still reckon he's a backman , and given a few more games in defence , wil get back to form and be in the top 22. Aisake , I don't know much about . Haven'n seen him at all , so can't comment.

Synbad get a grip buddy! Your passion is certainly admirable but what you are stating is the bleeding obvious and relates to every team that is not a final 8 contender.

Sure we turn the ball over and make decision and skill errors, this is due to the calibre of the player - Carrazzo, Bentick, Russell, Ackland, Wiggins - not because of Ratten's gameplan.

I'm sure you dont have an issue with Geelong's possession style football in the back half, and the transfer to the corridor for forward ball movement .

It's very easy to take potshots and be critical of Ratten but give him time my man - Geez at this rate you'll be asking for Kevin Rudd to step down because petrol prices have exceeded $1.60 a litre!

What! - you mean he won't.

Damn!!!!

I think they can both make it.

Aisake should have been given a go in the ruck ahead of Ackland (unfortunately injuries held him back).

Setanta should be played in the one position and allowed 15 weeks to settle (at full back in my opinion).

The irishmen are doomed now.

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

Spot on club29.

They don't do trigonometry in grade 1, they introduce it in high school.
So too, our young list has to grow into the natural looking, good decision making football that wins game and flags.

Coaching is about using the building block approach.
Ratten has the youngest list and knows that football is more complicated than just going long or keeping possession.
Unfortunately, the kids can't do everything with one pre-season on learning new game plans, building bodies, developing big engines, etc.

That's why the average age of a premiership team is 26 and a half.
Ours is 21 odd.

We'll win 6-8 games this year. That's all. Next year will be 10-12.
The year after 13-16.

As the kids graduate each year, so to will the success.

Patience...

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Friends, Carltonians, countrymen, lend me your ears
Now is the time - The time is now.
If you want it, come and claim it....if you dare.
One day, very very soon.....we will ride again.

I think we have been here before....but-
Setanta is, I think, a valuable third tall defender and spare parts man. He is tall, quick, and has reasonable skills, certainly as reasonable as some of his team mates He is best on th backline but can pinch hit in the ruck or up forward. Who else on our list can do that?
When Ratts needed someone on Brown he picked Setanta. Brown is probably the best player in the AFL. Power and Black were best on the ground, Charman dominated the ruck. The ball was coming in through top class midfielders under little pressure. How many defenders would have done better.

People say he hasn't the skill to survive in the Carlton team of the future. Have a look at the list! There is quality and there is a lot who are not, nor ever will be more than just solid performers. How many guys apart from Stevo, Murph Gibbs judd fev and Scotland are good kicks for instance?
And with the AFLs ludicrous plan of two new teams, drafting will be harder and less successful and there will be jobs for 80 more players.

The sum effect may be that in a few years and for a few years after that we will be lucky to get two long term players from the draft and will lose a few to the new teams, so the list is unlikely to change dramatically.

The disappointing thing for Setanta is that his coach consistently fails to support him in public. Ratts excuses fev's brain fades, Waites costly turnovers and lazy skill errors, some of Stevo's half hearted spoiling efforts etc etc, but can't seem to find a public word of encouragement for Setanta. That is really what is fuelling this debate. Maybe Setanta is strong willed, as you need to be to give up a sport you are a champ at to come half way across the world to play a game you have never played. Most coaches would admire that strength of will. Maybe Ratts doesn't like Pagan projects, or maybe he is trying to assert his authority by not giving him any encouragement publicly. Who knows, anyway he keeps playing him. I would think he is definitely worth a place next year and onward. He won't be a star but he will be a willing tall running player who can pinch hit, or take on Richo or Brown and give a contest.

Maybe part of the problem is that we didn't introduce someone from the outside with no preconceptions, to be part of the Ants coaching set up or part of the development set up.

maybe the coaching staff should wait till Setanta has played a few games on the opps second or third tall, with our midfield not standing and watching while the oppo run unopposed into their forward line and deliver it lace out.

TOTALLY ON YOUR PAGE HERE SYNERS!

Setanta was pretty good against Brown the other night, yet he really didn't seem to get any recognition.

I'm starting to think the MC & Coaching crew don't rate him or rate him but don't like him?????????????? Whatever it is, something is clearly going on. It's sad, cause i really do rate him.

10 more games and he'll get to 50 games for the CFC............... he's earnt that!

Poor guy has been moved all over the ground. Leave him @ Full Back and give him a chance.....................

"All we are saaaayyyyyyiiinnnngggggg...................... is give Setanta a Chhhhhhhhhhaaaannnncccccceeee!"

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

Setanta has this season to prove he can make it. Personally I don't think he will, I do like him, he really puts in, but a lot of the time it appears he has no idea what he is doing.

Coming from the hurling background is a disadvantage, he will probably play near on 50 games in a dark period for the club, so you would call it a small success, but is he anyone's idea of a premiership defender? He is not a forward either (though he can kick).

Again I like the way he goes about his work, heaps of enthusiasm, but I can't see him lasting any longer than this season or 09 at the most. Hope I am wrong though!

Weren't you praising Ratts for shifting him away from key defence into the ruck last year??

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There's so much I could say...

Yeah....... i was....... and if you remember that so easilly then you should remember my reasoning behind it.

He was servicable as a full back, but he needed to learn other aspects of the game. The choice to throw him in the ruck / up forward and at one stage, on the wing might not have seemed like a sucsess at the time but i think he learnt so much more about the game playing in those positions than what he would JUST as a fullback.

But with the knowledge that he learnt, plus his amazing athletisim, he could be a new-age defender....... his run and caryy out of the backline

_________________
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit"
- Aristotle

I think Setanta did a great job today.
I would like to see some of the people who bagged him during the week acknowledge it.

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We're getting closer to 17

He was on top until he injured his shoulder, I think Pav got on top after that, but credit to him holding him to 4 goals is a great effort. Should get the gig on Hawkins next week.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

Apologies anyone????

I think Setanta was our best defender today and he played almost half the game injured. For those who actually saw the game live a lot of his work off the ball and agression really did a lot for the team. Whoever calls for his axing at the end of season doesn't understand the game, pure and simple.

Ratts - please note: HE IS A DEFENDER!!!

When the big Irishman left the field in the third quarter after a hit he received shepherding a team mate Waite went to Pavlich and the big Freo gun grabbed the ball a couple of times and was instrumental in their comeback.

I know I'll cop some flack for this post but to hell with it. Sometimes the truth just has to be said even if it is not too popular.

Go SETANTA!!!!!

he was much better today.

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"You don’t get much more Navy Blue than Stephen Kernahan" - Marc Murphy

If somebody gets on here and tells me Setanta is a forward i'll fair dinkum neck them

Setanta, when he wasn't debilitated by a shoulder injury, destroyed Pavlich.

If Ratten still has the same thoughts then he should be sacked. He's a defender...........A flower DEFENDER. Got it MC

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"I will rejoice in their anguish, delight in their failure and revel in our success"

We are Carlton, @#$%&! the rest !!!!!!

DITTO

Do not judge Setanta as a ruck or as a forward cause he AINT he is a BACK. Please Rats leave him there! This will allow us to use our wild card in Waite on the wing or up forward.