The Rumour Thread (Media or Grapevine)

Lace Out · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:01 pm

Synbad wrote:

From what i hear around the traps.. if Voss wants the job its Voss' job.
There are a few people telling him it might be a disater.. but hes basically going to take it.
He believes he can do it.. and pratt and swann will make sure its as close to foolproof as possible for him to succeed.

What makes you think that only Voss will get that benefit??

You would think that whoever is coaching Carlton in 2008 will have a limitless supply to their needs and wants.............

Donstuie · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:07 pm

He shouldn't need any extra help to begin with. If he's so great he should be able to get these boys playing like their lives depended on it, regardless. The coach they should go for will be the one that needs the least amount of help from them.

Tractor Boy · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:37 pm

MonstaBlue wrote:

phoenix johnson wrote:

I've heard McKenna isn't that highly rated.

The same person told me that most people over at Claremont couldn't wait to get rid of him and appoint Ashley Prescott as coach.

Just a little food for thought...

Phoenix... To support this, this is what I wrote this in another thread the other day..............

"I have a mate who is in a position where he gets to speak to lots of people to do with AFL from administrators to coaches to players to recruiters etc. he has heard from many many sources that Guy McKenna will be an aweful coach. He is aparantly a few poor communicator and the whole Mckenna thing is being pushed by the media. In fact, Brad Gotch (is that his name?) from Williamstown once asked Malthouse why he always talks up McKenna and not him and he was told "I just answer what the media ask me.. Do I think McKenna can be a senior coach".. even at the pies it is said that they rate Gotch much higher than McKenna as he has coached his own side and been a success. People from the west also say he is very ordinary as was pointed out by the eagles allowing him to go after 1 year.... he was a favorite son there and if he was any good, this person said that there is no way they would have let him go to Collingwood.

For the record, I don't think Voss is the right man as he has no coaching experience........ I still believe we will poach an existing AFL coach or stick with Ratts..... No point really speculating as we will know soon after R22..."

To hear for ones self is better that to hear what is / was said.
Thats all i'll say...

bluebo baggers · **Posted:** Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:09 pm

phoenix johnson wrote:

I've heard McKenna isn't that highly rated.

The same person told me that most people over at Claremont couldn't wait to get rid of him and appoint Ashley Prescott as coach.

Just a little food for thought...

PJ - on the money, I have that first hand from a current player - it was all about Bluey not about the team and development.

amers · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:03 am

jezzarules wrote:

Ratts & Voss as co-coaches.
With a part-time/casual 'mentor' available to them as required.

Ratts/Voss to focus on coaching and team spirit building etc.
They can work out themselves how to divide/rotate aspects of the role.

Greg Swann to maintain control of overall direction of the footy dept. including appointments of peripheral staff, players contracts etc.
Except Ratts/Voss able to nominate one assistant each.

We don't need a new bloke to come in and turn the joint over and start again. Especially one without experience of doing that before.

Ratts/Voss to be on staggered two year contracts such that one is up for renewal each year. Either one can be replaced should need arise without major disruption.

I like the sound of that!

Indie · **Joined:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:28 am **Posts:** 1073

amers wrote:

jezzarules wrote:

Ratts & Voss as co-coaches.
With a part-time/casual 'mentor' available to them as required.

Ratts/Voss to focus on coaching and team spirit building etc.
They can work out themselves how to divide/rotate aspects of the role.

Greg Swann to maintain control of overall direction of the footy dept. including appointments of peripheral staff, players contracts etc.
Except Ratts/Voss able to nominate one assistant each.

We don't need a new bloke to come in and turn the joint over and start again. Especially one without experience of doing that before.

Ratts/Voss to be on staggered two year contracts such that one is up for renewal each year. Either one can be replaced should need arise without major disruption.

I like the sound of that!

Yep, let's continue the experiment of throwing coaches together when they might not like it. We've only put our toe in the water so far by imposing an unwanted reserves coach on the senior coach. Now we can go for broke and have 2 blokes as co-captains despite them both having egos big enough to put their hands up for a senior job. It'll be like Celebrity Death Match.

If only the Libs had realised they could have had Peacock and Howard as co-leaders. I wonder how history would have been rewritten if Hawke and Keating, and Howard and Costello were co-Prime Ministers. The tensions that were suppressed while one was undisputed leader might have raged from the outset then.

Let's face it - there's no way that either of them will accept being co-coaches. Why would Voss believe that Ratts' better connections at Carlton wouldn't be used to undermine his position? Why would Ratts believe that Voss' dominant personality wouldn't lead to him trying to dominate him as well? Why would anyone think that they are so compatible that they could work co-operatively together?

Have there been any other examples in any football code of a successful and equal coaching partnership being created by a club throwing 2 blokes together in this fashion?

camel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 am

Just because nobody else has not done it, doesn't mean it couldn't work.

But other than that I'm with you all the way Indie! :lol:

Ratten and Voss are their own men, they will want to coach their own teams, not share because it kinda sounds all warm and fuzzy on paper.

If a co-coaching scenario could work, I think you'd need to go some-way to replicating the Parkin-Brittain mentor option where you would imagine the mentee would ultimately shoulder the responsibility of making the final decisions, but he has a coach for himself on tap, if you like.

ryan2000 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:16 am

Yeah i considered the whole Voss/Ratts as Co-Coaches thing for a couple of reasons.

#1. Two head are better than one!
#2. I'm not sure if i want Voss.............but i don't want anybody else to get him. :lol:

I doubt if Ratts and Voss would want to do that thou.

molsey · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:34 am

That sort of concept can only work if there is one clear ultimate decision maker. You cannot have dual heads if there isn't a clear priority on who has the final say - it would degenerate into farce very quickly.

You can see it working with the mentor / game day type set-up we had for Brittain / Parkin (but only if there is an expectation of the mentor moving on at some point) but dual heads doesn't work (Ask a Tasmanian!)

Do you honestly think Voss would be happy being overruled on a positional play? Or Ratten?

Barnesy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:06 pm

From what I can make of it it looks like this:

On coaching alone - Brett Ratten

On marketing ability - Michael Voss

But i have faith in the administration now.

I would love to see Ratts get the job, but Voss has that marketing ability attached.

Plus Voss know's how to handle himself at the night clubs - :shock:

It surely would be out of these two.

My only question, and yes it could be reversed, is if next year Voss is at Carlton and Ratts at say Melbourne and the Dees are doing real well and we are showing only minor improvement how that would be received.

camel · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:10 pm

About the same as if we get Voss and go great guns and Melbourne stumbles.

Navy Blue Horse · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm **Posts:** 15848

Barnesy wrote:

From what I can make of it it looks like this:

On coaching alone - Brett Ratten

On marketing ability - Michael Voss

But i have faith in the administration now.

I would love to see Ratts get the job, but Voss has that marketing ability attached.

Plus Voss know's how to handle himself at the night clubs - :shock:

It surely would be out of these two.

My only question, and yes it could be reversed, is if next year Voss is at Carlton and Ratts at say Melbourne and the Dees are doing real well and we are showing only minor improvement how that would be received.

Surely a former premiership player and b&F winner (in the premiership year I believe?) has a fair bit of marketability?

Indie · **Joined:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:28 am **Posts:** 1073

That's the difference between membership and sponsorships/advertising.

Ratts may well be able to return similar results in terms of membership and coterie contributions, But Voss may be more marketable to sponsors and adverstisers as they want exposure not just to Carlton supporters but football followers generally. A more extroverted and media-friendly coach might have an advantage in that regard.

Still, Voss' marketability might be dented by his forthcoming court case.

Donstuie · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:25 pm

Marketability doesn't win games of football. So if the boys in charge are using this as part of their criteria we should be very worried indeed.

Barnesy · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:08 pm

Donstuie wrote:

Marketability doesn't win games of football. So if the boys in charge are using this as part of their criteria we should be very worried indeed.

That's why I have faith in Pratt, Swan, and Icke.......

I would prefer Ratts.

Elwood Blues1 · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am **Posts:** 4827

Donstuie wrote:

Marketability doesn't win games of football. So if the boys in charge are using this as part of their criteria we should be very worried indeed.

Signing Voss would be a bigger achievement in terms of kudos than signing Ratten and its all about who has the biggest dick in terms of CEO's/club admins....if Voss signs with Essendon* for example then they get the bragging rights.We panicked them into sacking Sheedy early and have already had Peter Jackson fire the first shot by saying they are the best club for any prospective coach etc etc,.....I say we find the best coach and let them worry about their image and bragging rights and dont get caught up playing silly games....

DownUnderChick · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:42 pm

The way everyone talks about Voss as being a great coach, I'm concerned that once the aura of being coached by him wears off, that the players will realise that he eats the same as them and craps the same as them but there is not much else to differentiate between him and them!

Whilst Vossy's thinking that he can coach is admirable, I am also sure that Ackland thinks that he can ruck too!

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 17946

DownUnderChick wrote:

Whilst Vossy's thinking that he can coach is admirable, I am also sure that Ackland thinks that he can ruck too!

Speakers · **Joined:** Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:19 pm **Posts:** 1105

Elwood Blues1 wrote:

Signing Voss would be a bigger achievement in terms of kudos than signing Ratten and its all about who has the biggest dick in terms of CEO's/club admins....

They don't call him Big Dick for nuthin mate :lol:

Speakers · **Joined:** Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:19 pm **Posts:** 1105

Maybe Voss and Ratten are the same person.

The Rumour Thread (Media or Grapevine)

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