Seems strange that amongst all the clambering for Ratts to go, that the position of captain remains largely without discussion on here.

Surely the removal of the on-field leader is as beneficial as removing one of ten coaches?

From my perspective - I think Judd offers very little to the role unless he's able to lead by example and haul in huge numbers/win the game off his own boot. Whilst the term "reluctant president" is often thrown about erroneously, I think Judd is a reluctant captain. Seldom seen giving the big rev up at the 3/4 time huddle, or giving a player a bake when they need to lift, it's not his style. On the other hand, the appraisals of his leadership from when he first came to the club, the setting standards toward professionalism, etc. appear in hindsight to be more of a reflection of where we were coming from, rather than any overnight revolution. "I now don't eat the skin off my chicken" seems a bit silly in hindsight. Then again, If rumour is to be believed, he may still be responsible for the best bit of leadership shown by the club in close to a generation, in taking a stand against retaining Brendan Fevola.

With the great man at the end of his contract next season, and every chance he decides to walk away from it, I think its a fair question to ask, whether in the pursuit of the premiership, whether we lost sight of the bigger picture, and should have had Juddy abdicate the captaincy at the start of this season to prepare the next group of leaders?

Carrazzo, Simpson and Jamison represent some very good options. Even all three at once offers merit, if only for its step away from traditional-Carlton thinking. Its hard to criticize the coaches box for a team not playing together, when the captain is happy to do his own thing on the field. Its a step forward in addressing a pressing issue: galvanizing a side of individuals, that can still be resolved before the end of the year no less.

A lot of the arguments toward Ratten stepping down here, are no different with Judd. "If Brett Ratten Chris Judd truly cares about the club/is a true Carlton person/wants to earn his salary/another ridiculous statement, then he'd step down straight away, and do the right thing for the club".

From a public relations perspective, Judd fronting a media pack in the coming week, and announcing that he's dropping the captaincy, wanting to concentrate on his footy, obviously hasn't had the best of years, feels that by giving the captaincy away and being able to focus on his own game, he can best contribute to the club's fight for finals action in 2012, and let the next generation of Carlton leaders show what they have to offer in uniting the playing group as one for the challenge ahead is money. In one fell swoop:

* - The blame is lifted from Ratten and onus back onto the playing group to turn things around. At the very least - the focus is off him.
* - Disillusioned fans suddenly have something to look forward to at the remaining home games and turn up. Finals? New captain? Juddy's back?
* - You lift the profile and visibility of 1 to 3 of our players. Brand exposure.
* - Positive press. A theme and mental image of the team wanting to fight for their season rather than lay down.
* - You've already started the membership campaign for 2013. New blood. New leadership. One direction....with one direction repeated several million times into Google searches/Facebook. Watch our membership soar in the 10-14 year old female demographic in droves.

Plenty of positives to get out of changing the captain. Not so many going for the easy target in the coach..

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Sacrilegious!

You would have been burnt at the stake for this in the 15th century Rhino.

Leadership comes in many forms. Judd is a inspirational leader. He is awe inspiring to players because of his exceptional talent. He sets a superb example because of the way he plays. His hardness and toughness is underrated and says "follow me". He says "do as I do". He trains and prepares like a demon. His professionalism is unquestioned. He says to younger players "aspire to be me". He is highly intelligent, a little bit better than everyone else, not one of the boys, but that is not a bad thing.

In my view he is a great captain, not a "nuff nuff ra ra ra captain" but a wonderful leader.

The thought of Juddy not being captain just beggars belief.

Your views are thought provoking and challenging Rhino but I'm sorry I dont agree.

Am I suggesting that Judd be demoted? Not particularly. Do I see merit in a captaincy changeover whilst he's still there to help out from a list perspective and a PR perspective? Absolutely. Is asking yourself questions like Kevin Rudd a bit wanky? Probably.

I agree that the example he sets around the club and the leadership exemplified within that, is top notch. Training, preparation, professionalism are as good as anyone in the league. But is his style that he brings from 2.10pm Saturday afternoon (or whatever wanky timeslot we're trialling this week) relevant or appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in? Unlikely.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

It's the only knock I have on him.

He's the skipper and the team is said to be lacking in leadership. I don't know if it's leadership, but its a fact that these blokes just do not care about each other.

So he's got to take some heat for that. It's not enough to say (as I have in the past) "well he didn't want it, they just forced it on him" the facts are he's the on-field boss, he's the foreman. He needs to take some responsibility.

IMO, Laidler is the stand-out candidate, if he can get his knee right.

I believe the number one picks, the son of a club legend, the former club champ and the boom recruit are too busy on their own games. Laidler , when he plays, has shown he can marshall a rag tag bunch of misfits (the Dirty Half Dozen) AKA the backline into a good defensive unit.

No other candidate has shown an ability to organise anything but their contracts.

_________________
I hope Essendon* folds.

Lukey, you have been on fire this last week or so. I am 100% behind your thesis. Rick J (without meaning to) pretty much backed up your argument - Judd is an inspirational on-field leader that younger players aspire to be like. Why then does he need the C next to his name?

If we're cleaning house we may as well clean the whole joint and not just the foyer and kitchen.

_________________
The only way for some people to understand is for them to be on the receiving end

Left wing moralists
In self serving denial
They shit me no end

Rhino starts another stupid thread. I think you just like the attention of getting people to reply.
I'm just glad your not running the club. NFI.

Yeah Chris Judd you should step down so we can put a player like carrazzo, simmo or jamison, in charge. Jamo the guy who was smashed by wallsy for showing no passion.

Close this thread. It is the home hardware toolish thread of the week.

It's something we need to consider IMO. As you said Judd's a lead by example type and at the moment he's not setting much of an example on field with some of his defensive efforts. His comments a month or so ago about being more attacking and not worrying about structures were a bit of an eye opener for me as well. Not sure that's the sort of thing he should be communicating to the media or the playing group. From memory he made a few comments about our defensive work in the back and forward lines as well but made no mention of the midfield's defensive efforts. Of course I probably just read too much into it but it's stuck with me.

A change might do everyone good. No idea who we'd give it to though. Up until a little while ago I would've said Simpson but he probably doesn't need the extra responsibility right now while he tries to work through the extra attention he's been getting. Carrazzo's about the only other bloke I can think of. We're not exactly overflowing with leadership candidates.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31789




viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16085 - "Should we of kept Deluca and put Josh Kennedy in the bullants?"

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Judd is more, much more, than an inspirational on-field leader Heavs. He'd be a great player and an inspiration with or without the captaincy.

He doesnt fit the mould of the back slapper, loud mouth, bogan captain of say the Gundaroo seconds.

But leadership is way more than this. And Juddy is head and shoulders above anyone else we have right now for a variety of reasons above and beyond his exceptional playing talent.

I just couldnt see him playing under any of the lesser lights mentioned by Rhino, who are a class below him in every respect.

It would be a sad day for me, and I suspect many others, if Juddy wasnt captain. It would cast a pall over the whole club and supporter base.

He may not have long to go. Let him remain captain until he retires. Like Cimm and for the reasons he espouses, Laids would be, for me, a strong candidate after this.

Captain Judd = Our best player, role model and source of inspiration.

Non Captain Judd = Our best player, role model and source of inspiration.

I have my own views on who should be skipper, but making someone other than your best player skipper, is quite well established. Is Maxwell the best player at the Pies, Mitchell at the Hawks, Glass at the Eagles etc etc.

So settle down Goltz, feel free to contribute to the discussion rather than calling for it to be shut down.

_________________
I hope Essendon* folds.

Murph should captain Carlton - he should be doing it now

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Is it any more or less sane than appointing a bloke as captain without having played a game for the club? Just recently, the greatest leg spinner the game has ever seen took orders from...err, Cameron White.



Just as much for the benefit of the new captain as well, that they've got an experienced hand in Judd helping them out really.

I like the Laidler suggestion, out of left field, and he really does have the attributes cimm suggested. Gotta admit - quite weary of it though having seen how the captaincy has taken its toll on Grimes and Trengove this season.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?

Murph lacks Judd's presence, intelligence, and oversight.

He is a great player, no doubt, but is very focussed on himself, which is probably the main reason he shouldnt be captain.

Maybe one day.

..give it to Robbo and he can scare everyone into line..

_________________
..if you can't be good, be good at it..

Never heard Judd say an intelligent thing TBH.

The club has developed a bit of a messiah complex about Judd IMO. Wouldn't be a bad move to give someone else the opportunity...Judd would be no lesser player for it.

No idea who though.

_________________
#DonTheStash

gutless flower, get off the fence, show some leadership.

_________________
I hope Essendon* folds.

Agree - particularly Ratten. His fawning is ridiculous. I wonder if he go on about him trying to keep Juddy sweet and "on side". Either way it's pathetic.

Righto then.


Waite.

_________________
#DonTheStash

I agree 100%...not sure of who would take over right now but it needs to be considered at the end of the year.

'cimm1979' - I would also have Laidler high up on the list, he might need a couple more years though and stay injury free.