The Blueprint for beating Carlton

camel · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 12:34 pm

This was discussed a bit on AFL360 last night, and while much of the discussion has been had in the St Kilda post-match thread I reckon it's worth standing on its own.

Here's the video from last night's show, plus a few quotes from Maclure and King:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/fair-po ... 6358800287

These are the things I see continually hurting us: crowding the stoppages, stopping our runners, roughing us up and superior concentration/mental strength.

Mental and physical toughness; ability to adapt and lift workrate to overcome our opponents' tactics against us; are we up to it?

I think we have a lot of room left to improve. I think the list, while not perfect, has the talent to go all the way, but I'm not sure if the blokes have the genuine desire and determination to do what's required to win a flag.

There's still plenty of time left for them to prove me and any other doubters wrong. I still have hope. :thumbsup:

AGRO · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 12:39 pm

If our coach and MC had a working blueprint for one of these and used it correctly I am sure we wouldnt have a problem.

If some of our players had a working blue print for one of these then we would almost never have a problem.

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 12:39 pm

need some front line midfielders and less uncontested football!

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 12:44 pm

if they are using the swarm in midfield it becomes a dogfight over who gets their hands on the ball we become overwhelmed by our lack of midfielders. therefore the runners and ball carriers are suffocated.

we have been a flaky football team because we are not contested in close.

that's one thing flanker types won't do as well!

first thing is get your hands on the ball!

Rexy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:46 am **Posts:** 28228

I think we need more variation in our clearance/stoppage/spread patterns of play along with forward 50 entries/shots on goal.

do our tactical coaches have the ability to provide greater variations of play ?

does the playing group have the composure and concentration to implement those variations ?

TruBlueBrad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 12:59 pm

This is exactly whats happened, teams have worked out how to beat us. Crowd the stoppages and apply plenty of physical pressure.

Has nothing to do with forward structures so swapping Waite and Hendo wont fix a thing.

The other thing thats been shown up is our inability to handle small forwards. We need to go back to last years format with 2 tall defenders, a medium tall and the a mix of smaller defenders and guys who can use the ball. I don't think we can play Jamo, Hendo, Bower and Laidler...let alone Duigan as well.

Better we got found out now than Wk 1 of the finals.

I have faith we'll adjust and get it right soon.

camel · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:04 pm

Synbad wrote:

if they are using the swarm in midfield it becomes a dogfight over who gets their hands on the ball we become overwhelmed by our lack of midfielders. therefore the runners and ball carriers are suffocated.

we have been a flaky football team because we are not contested in close.

that's one thing flanker types won't do as well!

first thing is get your hands on the ball!

Do you think we have a fundamental problem with our best 22-30 players?

Or do you think it's about how they are prepared, either physically or tactically?

Personally, I think the playing group is mostly okay, we're never going to have a perfect list, but so far as midfielders go the guys we have should be strong enough and capable of winning contested footy. Indeed the stats say we won the contested ball against the Saints. Just didn't look like it at all on the night.

I think the bottom line is our guys aren't hungry enough. They can keep telling us they are, but until it's displayed on the field for all to see, then it's pretty meaningless.

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:17 pm

we are playing a hard press style.
clubs are moving away from it.
we just latched onto that last year but everyone else was doing it longer.
we play a mostly uncontested brand me footy.

teams have devised a way to get through the press.

bombers and saints and by all reports kangaroos in pre season.

rats still thinks he was on a winner there!

then we don't have enough very good inside close tight contested football types.

so between what we have and what we don't have we have not been conditioned for scrap football!

so it's both!

saints are pants!

but they are better drilled for a scrap than we are!

that's why we are flaky!

better start drafting good front line midfielders soon! Judd can only wall paper the cracks for so long!
actually its amazing when you think about football. everything begins with you finding the ball.

yet we never paid attention to it!

laughable!

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:18 pm

oh yes the list of players is good!
the spread of roles is poor!

Kouta · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:22 pm

camelboy wrote:

Personally, I think the playing group is mostly okay, we're never going to have a perfect list, but so far as midfielders go the guys we have should be strong enough and capable of winning contested footy. Indeed the stats say we won the contested ball against the Saints. Just didn't look like it at all on the night.

I think the bottom line is our guys aren't hungry enough. They can keep telling us they are, but until it's displayed on the field for all to see, then it's pretty meaningless.

You can't tell me that Ryder, Bellchambers, Watson, Stanton, Lonergan, Howlett, Hocking, Jetta, Zaharakis, Colyer and Melksham have more ability and muscle than Kreuzer, Hampson, Judd, Carrazzo, Murphy, Curnow, Robinson, Gibbs, Ellard and Lucas.

Footy is played between the ears. It's workrate and not responding to their efforts to shut down our game plan. Richardson said that even though we lost the clearances, Monday night was the first time the Saints have been outscored from stoppages. It could have been different if we had put scoreboard pressure on and hit our targets. Get that right and we can go all the way.

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:29 pm

you are not following.

I said

its a mix of the kinds of players we have

PLUS what they have been conditioned to do!

carrots went down and we cried foul! lol

they play with intent and aggression cop that is how they trained.

we play uncontested football!

our mix of players is that and our gameplan backs that up.

we cry if we can't play the way we want!.

a couple of inside tight grunt midfielders would balance up what we have!

instead Joseph has a contract
white had a contract
Davies has a contract
Watson is pants.

etc.

bombers are great in close!

they have a great one in Jobe and he is supported!

their players have not been conditioned to suck the teat of uncontested football!

we are always going to be vulnerable now.

Navy Blue Horse · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:39 pm **Posts:** 15848

mental strength aka red time goals!!

that one on half time on Monday was a heart breaker....but oh so predictable.

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Kouta wrote:

camelboy wrote:

Personally, I think the playing group is mostly okay, we're never going to have a perfect list, but so far as midfielders go the guys we have should be strong enough and capable of winning contested footy. Indeed the stats say we won the contested ball against the Saints. Just didn't look like it at all on the night.

I think the bottom line is our guys aren't hungry enough. They can keep telling us they are, but until it's displayed on the field for all to see, then it's pretty meaningless.

You can't tell me that Ryder, Bellchambers, Watson, Stanton, Lonergan, Howlett, Hocking, Jetta, Zaharakis, Colyer and Melksham have more ability and muscle than Kreuzer, Hampson, Judd, Carrazzo, Murphy, Curnow, Robinson, Gibbs, Ellard and Lucas.

Footy is played between the ears. It's workrate and not responding to their efforts to shut down our game plan. Richardson said that even though we lost the clearances, Monday night was the first time the Saints have been outscored from stoppages. It could have been different if we had put scoreboard pressure on and hit our targets. Get that right and we can go all the way.

outscored in the stoppages cos they didn't have a ruck.

lol

nice!

so a couple of times we knocked it out the back and Eddy swooped!

big deal!

doofdoof · **Joined:** Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm **Posts:** 2251

Depressing

club29 · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:46 pm

TruBlueBrad wrote:

This is exactly whats happened, teams have worked out how to beat us. Crowd the stoppages and apply plenty of physical pressure.

Has nothing to do with forward structures so swapping Waite and Hendo wont fix a thing.

The other thing thats been shown up is our inability to handle small forwards. We need to go back to last years format with 2 tall defenders, a medium tall and the a mix of smaller defenders and guys who can use the ball. I don't think we can play Jamo, Hendo, Bower and Laidler...let alone Duigan as well.

Better we got found out now than Wk 1 of the finals.

I have faith we'll adjust and get it right soon.

Exactly what i have been saying about our backline TBB. We need two talls and the rest onballer types with clean hands and composure. We will see what we mean when the MC put gibbs back with yaz. It will be completely different when the ball hits the ground and our attack from that point will have more zip and creativity to it.

This does plays into what Synbad is saying about us not having enough onballers. If we play too many back we wont have enough for actually on ball. Its an issue.

No major deck reshuffling is required just yet as long as we get the mix right. From there it is attitude and willingess to engage in the battle that will happen in a clogged stoppage.

We have been playing to risky when this tactic is applied to us. We need to reign it in a bit and enjoy the fight. Dont let it out of the bubble unless on our terms is golden rule. A rule we have been far from sticking to.

We can fight out way out of this if we want it bad enough. We have won dogfights before when we really set ourselves for it. The attitude we took to sydney last year has to be our attitude from this point on.

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:46 pm

I love the beat the saints in stoppage scoring analogy.

did our coaches really see that as a positive!

you have to admit they are clutching at straws a bit now!

we got smashed all over the park!

he should just say it as it is!

we need some home truths!

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 1:48 pm

club29 wrote:

TruBlueBrad wrote:

This is exactly whats happened, teams have worked out how to beat us. Crowd the stoppages and apply plenty of physical pressure.

Has nothing to do with forward structures so swapping Waite and Hendo wont fix a thing.

The other thing thats been shown up is our inability to handle small forwards. We need to go back to last years format with 2 tall defenders, a medium tall and the a mix of smaller defenders and guys who can use the ball. I don't think we can play Jamo, Hendo, Bower and Laidler...let alone Duigan as well.

Better we got found out now than Wk 1 of the finals.

I have faith we'll adjust and get it right soon.

Exactly what i have been saying about our backline TBB. We need two talls and the rest onballer types with clean hands and composure. We will see what we mean when the MC put gibbs back with yaz. It will be completely different when the ball hits the ground and our attack from that point will have more zip and creativity to it.

This does plays into what Synbad is saying about us not having enough onballers. If we play too many back we wont have enough for actually on ball. Its an issue.

No major deck reshuffling is required just yet as long as we get the mix right. From there it is attitude and willingess to engage in the battle that will happen in a clogged stoppage.

We have been playing to risky when this tactic is applied to us. We need to reign it in a bit and enjoy the fight. Dont let it out of the bubble unless on our terms is golden rule. A rule we have been far from sticking to.

We can fight out way out of this if we want it bad enough. We have won dogfights before when we really set ourselves for it. The attitude we took to sydney last year has to be our attitude from this point on.

we win dogfights?

when?

woof · **Joined:** Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am **Posts:** 4919

Synbad wrote:

we win dogfights?

when?

Freemantle, the team you picked as the big improvers this year, that was a dogfight and I could have sworn we won that game.

bondiblue · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 2:04 pm

The Blueprint to beat Carlton if Carlton play the type of game they did against Saints and Bumbers.
There's no Blueprint for beating Carlton if we are not so predictable...and that has nothing to do with the players. We have a good list...yes it can be better, but its pretty good.

We have what we have right now and we have to make the most of it for this years tilt for the flag.
We can focus on extractors and tough mids next draft/trade....after the GF.

When we play against WCE we are found short when Kreuzer and Waite are missing. That's because the WCE play 4 talls in their forwadline and sometimes 5. So we need talls in the backline against them.

Against shorter fowardlines ala Saints we should play only 2 talls.

The MC should know this and work on their selections a bit better than they did in those 2 games.

We have the list to take us all the way...we need a blueprint of those objects Agro gave us a look at

Synbad · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 2:10 pm

woof wrote:

Synbad wrote:

we win dogfights?

when?

Freemantle, the team you picked as the big improvers this year, that was a dogfight and I could have sworn we won that game.

I prefer to be wrong about Carlton than right about us!

regardless! Lyon will stiffen them up.. . you can put that on record!

but yes we are much better than the dockers!

right?

The Blueprint for beating Carlton

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