Just picking up on a recurring theme in the NAB Cup thread.

Two players were raised with the question 'have we seen the best of...' preceding their names. With a rapidly developing list, this could be a very interesting topic for further discussion.

The two players mentioned in teh thread were;

- Setanta

- AJ

FWIW I could see points favoring either side of the argument with those two. There's no doubt, however, they are both facing a squeeze at their spots in the 22 and probably need to elevate their game to a level we haven't seen from either of them to play regular senior football.

However that's not why I'm here. I wanted to add a third name to the list for discussion.

Bower

I was riding him pretty hard last year, and didn't see a lot on Saturday night to suggest he's altered dramatically. I'm not basing my inclusion of him the the 'have we seen the best of' list solely on Saturday night, however the worrying elements from last year were still there. Namely;

- Running with complete lack of purpose or direction

- Playing on regardless of the pressure he's under, or the pressure he's about to place on any teammate in the general vicinity

- Awful decision making

- Sub-par disposal


I'm not doubting for a second his athletic ability or speed. As others have identified, those are two qualities we lack in other backline spots. He also seems to read the play and the flight of the ball extremely well, another very valuable commodity when the rules are so heavily slanted to the forward. It just seems that the second he has the ball in his hands he becomes a liability. Which is odd, because I only think the indecisiveness and general lack of purpose crept in last year. In his earlier days I never felt like we weren't safe with the ball in his hands. Now I just want the ball to reach a teammate safely and avoid a turnover goal.

All of this is a very long winded way of saying - Have we seen the best of Bower?

No

No.

He has only just turned 23 and it is February.
He didn't even play that badly.
If fact this is a shit thread.
I'm leaving.

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dane's trolling again

No.

I liked Bower on the weekend. I like how he plays on, keeps the ball moving and tries to create run.
I feel happy when he has the ball because his attacking play can set things up. He was a little rusty the other night but he will iron that out over the next month.
Hopefully he avoids injury and has a great season.

I just hope we have seen the worst of him because he must be as bad as he will get.

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

What the hell was wrong with Bower on the weekend?

He attacked the ball and took the game on.... Would rather him make an odd error or two than the ones who have all the time in the world running around in the same spot.

He is young, has not played a lot of footy.

You guys are way too harsh.

I guess I have to add that I don't have an agenda with him, I hope he succeeds. Clearly any kind of criticism or questioning of a player's development requires that post script. Bless.

I don't think my post questioned his attacking intent, in fact I praised it. But look at the last play of the game against Collingwood. He ran himself into trouble (sound familiar?), then bombed a left foot lob to the one spot in the ground where we couldn't win the game (inside 50). There was no composure, no real direction or thought process beyond beyond 'must run forward, oh crap I'm in trouble, get rid of it'.

I'm not sure if that's going to cut the mustard in a league of presses and zones where decision making becomes so critical. In fact it was the second Collingwood game last year where you could almost see him mentally disintegrate. He wasn't alone that day, of course.

I can't see him developing a footy brain, good player to put pressure on our up and comers though

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Between our dreams and actions lies this world

Bower is an integral part of our defence.Thought he was one of our better players on the night. For the record how many goals did his direct opponent kick? How many times was he outmarked in a contest?

You might want to add Jamison to this list though.

Conundrum

I thought he played ok the other night.

Needs an injury free year to really establish himself, if he gets injured he might find it hard to get back in with the depth of White, Laidler, Watson, T-Bird etc.

I agree Jammo is the concern for me

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I guess we have no alternative.

Send Jamison back to FB.

Have we seen the best of Judd?

If not, then bugger me blue.

Would you send your sheep out to lay egg ???

What was he doing in unchartered waters ???

Send the chiken back to the chicken coup ??? (Spelling)

Cows back in the padocks too for that matter. Someone get old McDonalds farm organsised please FFS.

Keep the bulls at bay too please.

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Bring the season on already. The wait is killing me.

Jammo is a our most important player
When he went down injured a couple seasons ago we got pummeled
without him our backline is in shambles
last year he was number one for spoils in the comp
he'll be fine as long as he stays down back (lol @ him going forward)
we have so many attackn backmen all he has to do is shutdown teams FF

I think bower will be a very damaging loose defender when he gets his rhythm back

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Better to die standing than to live on your knees...
CAR17ON

I agree, but I thought it was good to see him up forward for a stint. he still hasn't kicked a goal at AFL level although he should have got that one against the Pies in his first season when he went for that 40 metre snap....Fevola was clapping it....I was behind it....it was through!

That first free he gave away against Collingwood that set up their first goal looked very light on from where I was sitting but I haven't seen the replay. Did he have a hand on the shoulder?

Key weaknesses seem to be his free kicks and his ability to get into the game and set up. he is averaging 8-9 stats a game so he is more in the Presti mould than anything else.


As for Bower, I thought he was good on the weekend and I think he'll continue to get stuck in some decision making conundrums given his footy instincts. In the pre-game warm-up he was slotting goals from 50 on his left!

Jamo's kicking for goal was off the other night - he could have kicked a couple of goals in a half of footy. Not sure why people see it as so stupid, I think it was worth the experiment in the first practice match of the year.

We won't win premierships with AJ and Ellard. Endeavour alone won't lead the club to the last two weeks of the finals.
Bower has his weaknesses but as Robert walls says "Carlton hasn't got 80 meter players" or players who can mark, run 30 and kick 50 to a target. His disposal works against him but he is about as close as we have today. That may change when this years recruits develop in a few years

With Jamo - I think he needs another string to his bow - easily one of the best negating defenders going around just needs to expand his game a bit more-
Same applies for Joseph if they decide to become a zoning defensive team which it looks like then the hard tag 'might' be gone that means he has to improve the rest of his game

As for have we seen the best of - you wouldn't think the following have much left that we haven't seen

Waite
Houlihan
Scotland
Thronton
Simpson
Setanta
maybe Judd

Most of the rest of the team you would think they have improvement in them but you can't be sure
I'm not sure if Walker can improve more - he does look far more dangerous up forward but is he anymore dangerous than Yarren

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Who were we playing against again...??

Oh that's right: last year's premiers who have blokes that maul opposition teams.

I seem to recall being belted by these gorillas last year - yet, we trial some new kids and get within about a goal from knocking them off!!

Maybe we did quite well.

Good grief....it's doesn't get any better than this thread!!

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006