I am by NO MEANS saying that we shouldn't have traded for Judd (I think it will be a pivitol trade for our club for years to come !!!!!!!) but I was just wondering how people think the side would look for this year, and the years to come, if we didn't land Judd ............

Lets face it, without Judd Carlton would probably have finished 13-14 this year, probably above Melbourne, Freo and Port but the WCE wouldn't have given up so early and probably would have finished above Carlton. So I would say Carlton finishes 13th


There would have been some obvious changes to our drafting in 2007 too ............. Last year we would have still had #3 and #20, so would have picked up Kreuzer, (Tigers would have snatched up Cotchin's still) and probably picked up a young midfielder such as Palmer or Morton at #3. We would still have Kennedy so would probably have gone for either another KPP or Defender at #20, so lets say they also took Notte with #20. We would still have got Browne with our last pick. (Hadley would still have been traded for IMO)

So we would be down a Judd but would still have Palmer/Morton in the midfield, Kennedy and Notte as developing KPP and our young backline would still be the same.

This year we probably would have recruited fairly similarly to how we already did. As I said, we probably would have finished down the ladder at #13 so we would have had #4, #22, #38, #54, #66 and #78 (roughly). Warnock may not have "demanded" to be traded to Carlton, so lets assume we will still have all these picks available. We would still be a ruck short, along with a KPP and some more class in the midfield required.

We probably still would have gone for a one of Hurley/Hartlett/Rich/Yarren with #4. Each would provide something we would be lacking (another solid Defender/Class midfielder/another Forward option). I think Yarren would still be taken to add another dimension to our forward line, which would consist of Fev/Kennedy/Betts/Fisher with Notte still developing in the Ants.

If all stayed the same in the draft then Trentgove would be a great pick up at #22 as a key defender, similar to Hurley (We would have been kicking ourselves). That said, Ratten has said that he rated Robinson at #9 on our wish list so he may have been taken at #22 too. Alternatively we would still be 1 ruck option short as no Warnock so a ruck may have been looked at for #22 (I don't know the ruck stocks available in the draft well enough to slot one in here, but an older ruckman may have been drafted to support Cloke/Hammer/Kreuzer for a year or 2).

If Trengove is selected at #22 then Robinson would differnetly go at #38, and Ratten would be over the moon (as he was when we got him at #40). #54 would probably still be used on O'Keefe who we had in our top 25 for the draft, but it may have been used in a trade for a ruckman, Tiller would probably still been grabbed with #66 and our last pick passed on for a spot in the PSD.

So as a whole I would think that our drafting this year would have remained relatively unaffected, except we may/may not have got Warnock to the club, but probably would still have drafted Yarren, Robinson and O'Keefe with the #22 pick of Trengrove and/or another ruckman the main variations.

All in all I don't think the Judd recruitment would have affected our drafting too much this year.

So all up we would have another young midfielder to go with Gibbs/Murphy/Kreuzer, possibly 2 more KPP in Kennedy and Notte, another Defender in Trengrove but our ruck stocks would/could be down a Warnock


Im still quite happy with how everything panned out ...............


P.S would have we gone harder at ROK if we had room in the TPP because we were a Judd down ??? Or would we not even consider it as we would be too far off a premiership and he would be too old ???

God I have just given myself a head ache ... What do you guys think ??? How far ahead has acquiring Judd put us ??? Would we be pushing for a finals spot this year, or would next year be our first realalistic shot at the finals ??? And how much relief for our KPP stocks would the possible inclusion of Kennedy, Notte and maybe Trengrove given us ???

Talk about a failed thread ................ lol

noone cares.

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dane's trolling again

Life without Judd is unimaginable for most Carlton people nowadays, I guess that's why there are no replies but I dare say the question will be asked in 6 years time if we don't have the 17th trophy in the cabinet!!

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

I think that your post still misses the point.
You can put all the very best young crewmen on the wildoats, but without a rudder you aren't going to win the race.
The single biggest value that Judd was recruited for was his character. He taught the kids what it takes to be elite and with him, the likes of Murphy, Walker, Gibbs and even Stevens would not get the best out of themselves.

Without Judd our team would still look unprofessional, wayward, lacking intensity and still be wallowing around the bottom of the ladder for years to come.

P.S It doesn't matter if we win a premiership in the next 6 years or not, because if we can't win one with Judd leading the team, then we sure as hell wouldn't win one without him.

Not true, if we didn't have Judd we'd have JK and probably Rhys Palmer as well. add to that pick 20 from last years draft. Players like Gibbs and Murphy ooze leadership, they do not need Judd to show them the way (as much as it helps). I think you massively underestimate the influence that Brett Ratten has had on the club as well. It's not ALL Chris Judd. If there is no premiership in the cabinet in 6 years time and we have no Judd, no Fevola, no Simpson, no Scotland, no Stevens, no Waite and most of all no JK or Rhys Palmer and all the other early picks we would have secured for being down and out for another 2-3 years then the Judd move will be a failed one IMO. Anyone who thinks not winning a premiership in the next 6 years is acceptable in terms of whether we should have recruited Judd or not is delusional.

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

I don't see the point of this.

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

I just dont think of it like that. If we cant win one with judd and young up and coming list we have now then we wouldnt win one with Rhys Palmer and JK instead.

Judd has paid for himself already as far as i am concerned. He is one in a million.

Judd cost us Rhys Palmer, Josh Kennedy and pick 20, I doubt we would have taken Notte, but it was an average draft, so I'm not losing sleep over who missed out on with that pick. People bemoan the fact that we lost JK even though he was supported about as much as Jordan Russell on these boards, but you have to see that he was sacrificed to get Kruezer to the club... we lost a KPP we gained a KPP. I'm sure we could have kept him at the club, but it would have meant bye bye to pick 1 and hello to Rhys Palmer as our first picked. WCE would have taken Cotchin, Tiges would have gone Kruezer, and Palmer to us.

So there's the trade off in players, we can all see in the coming years who got the better deal by the performances of the individuals, but people will always forget the intangibles, like how much better Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer will be now that they are being led by someone other than Fev and Stevens, and by the same token Fev and Stevens will see what is expected of them. The way I see it, our club needed Judd more than it needed more young players.

This recent trade/draft period we got a bit of luck, We targeted Warnock and gave up a good pick for him, but the cards fell our way in the draft. If word out of the club is true, we would have taken Robbo at 24 - which is about wher i thought he'd go - so really Warnock cost us pick 40 which I suspect we would have used on Jordan Lisle - having already selected Robbo with 24.
Again, time will tell how we fared, Warnock may lack the durability to play AFL, but in the meantime we have at least addressed that aspect of our list and I can't see us picking any ruckmen in the upcoming drafts.

The pleasing things is, the club has got the players it wanted and you can't ask for any more than that, because even if you disagree with what the guys in charge think, you would at least want them to be able to implement their plans the way they intended, rather than have them put things in place on the hop.

I hope you didn't write several drafts before you posted that

Jokes aside, I love your passion !

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It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it

Yeah, pretty much what I was thinking too (Remember I said I agreed with the trade). The extra kids would have been nice, and we may have covered some defeciencies that we still have, but the expreience and professionalism that Judd brings to the club is priceless. I think acquiring Judd has brought us at least 1-2 years ahead of where we were without him.

...sort of like every post you've ever written, right?



Life without Judd? Shit.

Murph's development would be help back by 1-2 years. Stevens would be getting hammered by trying to get the hard balls along with Bentick - who I
think would have more of a role if Judd wasn't around...

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Wow!! Stevens and hard ball gets?? Are you livin in some perverse footy fantasy land??

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You want the flame? Give us the marbles!!

you obviously only started watching Carlton play last year...

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