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sinbagger
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:59 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm
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Location: Australia
Synbad wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
Synbad wrote:

We had a bunch of lazy senior footballers... who wouldnt/couldnt get to the contests.

Lance
Kouta
Campo
Houla
Throw in Fev when he didnt feel like it....


That sets the tone.....



Weren't these the same players that made the Grand Final inn 99, finals 2000 etc.

So what changed between 2000 and 2006 that set the tone so poorly? Were they lazy to fight tooth and nail against the best team in the comp in 99 to get t the big one?
Synbad, you have the same opinion as Pagan that the players must repect the coach and gut bust run for him irrespective of how they are treated. My Father taught me that Respect is to be given AND recieved that was clearly not the case with Pagan.

For a player to perform at their peak they need to be in good condition, physically, metally and emotionally. Do I need to explain further why we performed so poorly.
BTW this applies to all facets of life, you only need to see the performance of a work colleague who is having trouble at home to see the effect that poor emotional state has on performance

Thats an unbelievable argument.
If they were good enough to play in the finals 7 years ago.. and Denis was good wough tpo coach a flag during that time.. what has changed??


Hmm, let me think, what is more likely, 10+ players suddenly losing their skills, or one coach losing the plot?

I think Steve_C7's argument is spot on, one of the coaches job is to create the correct environment for his players to succeed, this will vary from club to club and playing list to playing list. If you smack someone around the head often and unremitting enough then sooner or later they will lie down.

but then perhaps you are right, we should have shot them for giving up...
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DocSherrin III
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:00 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Quote:
And it cpost us 10 years!!!
Not 5...


Agreed to a certain extent - however history will tell us that if there was a time to be punished and banished to the point of extinction - then this will be it....a decade that saw the interstate teams (for the most part) dominate the competition before Melbourne clubs realised how the system worked and how to put their money in the places that best benefited the football club.

I'm not so sure I've made sense here - I've just come back from a liquid lunch where the word 'rabble' was used for someone else's team and not mine.

In addition to this - Tungsten Strike will win the cup. Thank me later.
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verbs
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Whilst it's great that Kouta wrote what he did, from all accounts it only takes up 2 pages of his book.

What I'd like to see is someone going into great detail about all of what happened during the Pagan years.
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Jarusa
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:00 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Why has Happell got a silent c?

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Virgin Blue
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:37 pm 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:32 pm
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verbs wrote:
Whilst it's great that Kouta wrote what he did, from all accounts it only takes up 2 pages of his book.

What I'd like to see is someone going into great detail about all of what happened during the Pagan years.


I wrote about as much as I could be bothered to write on that, and actually thought what I wrote was ample.
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verbs
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:58 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Virgin Blue wrote:
verbs wrote:
Whilst it's great that Kouta wrote what he did, from all accounts it only takes up 2 pages of his book.

What I'd like to see is someone going into great detail about all of what happened during the Pagan years.


I wrote about as much as I could be bothered to write on that, and actually thought what I wrote was ample.


I meant a book about it, instead of just two pages.
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Ockham's Razor
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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I particularly liked this bit from Mr Happell;

Quote:
... was always going to be a major focus of the book ...


It was 2 pages out of 228. Major focus :lol: nah, it was just journos who focused on this bit to the exclusion of everything else in the book.

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Virgin Blue
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:55 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Good to see Aisake saying Kouta has taught him heaps.

But Kouta is a terrible leader right??
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kkk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:21 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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the only one to improve was Fev, who Brittan had more to do with his improvement than Pagan. So again in 2 years whats changed
http://footyforecaster.com/graph?league ... ontsize=12

This should make it clearer for you[/quote]

Sorry, I can't let that go through to the keeper.

Brittain had no idea how to handle Fevola and is on record as saying he would have got rid of him had he remained coach.

As we were not allowed to trade into the first 2 rounds of the draft it makes one wonder what we would have got as a trade.

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Steve_C7
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:42 am 
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Harry Vallence

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kkk wrote:
Steve_C7 wrote:
the only one to improve was Fev, who Brittan had more to do with his improvement than Pagan. So again in 2 years whats changed
http://footyforecaster.com/graph?league ... ontsize=12

This should make it clearer for you


Sorry, I can't let that go through to the keeper.

Brittain had no idea how to handle Fevola and is on record as saying he would have got rid of him had he remained coach.

As we were not allowed to trade into the first 2 rounds of the draft it makes one wonder what we would have got as a trade.


You are correct in what you're saying, but the fact that Brittain sacked Fevola was the wake up call that Fev needed, had Brittain not given the marching orders to Fev do you think that he would have knucked down or would he still kept thinking that he was safe and didn't have to put in 100%? I am of the view that as soon as Fev gets comfortable in his position he gets wayward, maybe that's why the club keeps offering him as tradebait.
I just wish that he would apply himself to be the best he can be because I honestly believe that he can become a legend of the game and really drag this whole club to our next premierhip.
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sideshow bob
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:44 am 
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Harry Vallence
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did fev knuckle down?

i must have missed it
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buzzaaaah
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Thats really clutching Steve. Pagan has a lot to answer for, but one of his triumphs was keeping and promoting Fev. There is no doubt that Fev was gone if Britts stayed and how would we feel with Fev winning the Coleman at Essendon* or Geelong or wherever.

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Steve_C7
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:36 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm
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buzzaaaah wrote:
Thats really clutching Steve. Pagan has a lot to answer for, but one of his triumphs was keeping and promoting Fev. There is no doubt that Fev was gone if Britts stayed and how would we feel with Fev winning the Coleman at Essendon* or Geelong or wherever.


You are missing my point,
If Brittan didn't sack Fev, do you still think that pagan would have made the same improvement in Fevs attitude or was the realisation that his career may be over the imputous that Fev needed? This is one we will never really know the answer to, but I am of the belief that had Brittain not sacked Fev then he would not have knuckled down although he still has a loong way to go. Bear in mind that he was young and would have improved purely by virtue of experience.

Again I believe tha the Pagan - Fev relationship has been overplayed and I don't think that Pagan is not responsible for the improvemnt in Fev, but many will probably not agree with me on this one which is fine with me
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