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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Garry Crane

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 241
Chris Fagan has had four pre seasons with the Lions with great recuiting in Cameron and Neal that have changed the face of the club and Flag favs.

We need a big trading period and Teagues 2nd pre season should start bearing fruit in fact I see that it already is - just need some minor tweaks and couple of top liners

Time to throw kitchen sinks at A graders


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:54 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1174
keogh wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
I don't understand why the coach isn't getting more criticism. His win and loss ratio hasn't got better since 2019, and to my eye he only has one gear. If we don't score quickly we look almost incapable of scoring. There's no Plan B. He's all one way traffic, down the slopes. Bit like the Crows when he was overseeing their forward line.


Your missing the point
If you want to pinpoint one thing it’s the quality and depth of our midfield
Teague does need to experiment in this area
Definitely play Pittonet and DeKoning in tandem
Play more youngsters

Has had a year in the job
Now is the time to try things
Having Curnow Kennedy Setterfield Murphy in the middle isn’t going to work long term
Not enough toughness strength willingness to take game on intensity etc

So you try different personal
What do we need in 2021 and beyond
The midfield is the key area until they change the rules that stops 36 Blokes in a confined Space


I'm not missing the point at all.
I've raised multiple issues in a few posts.
Midfield is a major problem, that's a no brainer.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Posts: 28116
Mickstar wrote:
Timid and meak............no ferocity..............we continually make excuses for these blokes.Excuse time is running out.Give 'em one last chance against the Eagles...............inject a bit of run and carry and we are capable of an upset.............reckon the defining moment is on us this week.Gonna tell us a lot this game.


Yes, there's still times we're dominated and broken apart as a team. It's been like that for 20 yrs.

There'll come a time when a Carlton team once again refuses to be dominated and plays with authority.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:06 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Recruiting and list management has been the biggest problem
More than the coaching in most cases.

Teague needs to try different players through the midfield


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:36 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Rexy wrote:
Mickstar wrote:
Timid and meak............no ferocity..............we continually make excuses for these blokes.Excuse time is running out.Give 'em one last chance against the Eagles...............inject a bit of run and carry and we are capable of an upset.............reckon the defining moment is on us this week.Gonna tell us a lot this game.


Yes, there's still times we're dominated and broken apart as a team. It's been like that for 20 yrs.

There'll come a time when a Carlton team once again refuses to be dominated and plays with authority.




No team fears us no team respects us, if they did then 5 goals up in the first quarter would translate into a ten goal plus win.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Rod McGregor

Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Posts: 194
Walsh wrote:
Chris Fagan has had four pre seasons with the Lions with great recuiting in Cameron and Neal that have changed the face of the club and Flag favs.

We need a big trading period and Teagues 2nd pre season should start bearing fruit in fact I see that it already is - just need some minor tweaks and couple of top liners

Time to throw kitchen sinks at A graders

Agree with you Walsh that Teague needs time to make his mark and to recruit mature reliable talent.

However, the Brisbane analogy leaves out one key detail: the recruitment of Luke Hodge. Along with Fagan he turned around the basket case culture they had prior. He’s a coach out on the field. He knows what’s required to win flags and he made that known to the young list they have. When momentum shifted against them in games, he could say this is how we counter it and weather the storm. He’s got premiership clout. That’s who they had developing their young talent.

What do we have? Simmo and Murph are fantastic servants of the club. Some of the guys we played next to them in their prime was downright negligent. Regardless, what do they know about playing in a premiership calibre side? What do they know about how you train, prepare and play to be a consistent contending side? Again, I reiterate, fantastic servants of the club but they haven’t won anything so they can’t possibly know what it takes to succeed. Cripps and Doc tried their arses off as captains yesterday but how many finals have they played between them? These are the guys in charge of developing our youngsters - the guys we’ve invested so many high picks into.

We’re mired in this rut of the losing mentality that has plagued this club for 20 years. We need to find some genuine leadership as a player or coach. Saints got Roughead as a dev coach last year. We need to do something like this. Find a way to get a Selwood when he retires. Someone who knows what it takes and can break the loser mentality that has plagued this club and continues to do so.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:31 pm 
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Robert Walls
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david31 wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Chris Fagan has had four pre seasons with the Lions with great recuiting in Cameron and Neal that have changed the face of the club and Flag favs.

We need a big trading period and Teagues 2nd pre season should start bearing fruit in fact I see that it already is - just need some minor tweaks and couple of top liners

Time to throw kitchen sinks at A graders

Agree with you Walsh that Teague needs time to make his mark and to recruit mature reliable talent.

However, the Brisbane analogy leaves out one key detail: the recruitment of Luke Hodge. Along with Fagan he turned around the basket case culture they had prior. He’s a coach out on the field. He knows what’s required to win flags and he made that known to the young list they have. When momentum shifted against them in games, he could say this is how we counter it and weather the storm. He’s got premiership clout. That’s who they had developing their young talent.

What do we have? Simmo and Murph are fantastic servants of the club. Some of the guys we played next to them in their prime was downright negligent. Regardless, what do they know about playing in a premiership calibre side? What do they know about how you train, prepare and play to be a consistent contending side? Again, I reiterate, fantastic servants of the club but they haven’t won anything so they can’t possibly know what it takes to succeed. Cripps and Doc tried their arses off as captains yesterday but how many finals have they played between them? These are the guys in charge of developing our youngsters - the guys we’ve invested so many high picks into.

We’re mired in this rut of the losing mentality that has plagued this club for 20 years. We need to find some genuine leadership as a player or coach. Saints got Roughead as a dev coach last year. We need to do something like this. Find a way to get a Selwood when he retires. Someone who knows what it takes and can break the loser mentality that has plagued this club and continues to do so.



Faaarking hell Dave,i have mentioned Selwood in the past and been torn to shreds.So yeah,i agree.Excellent post.Hard yes,but fair.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:59 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Location: riding shotgun on Agros Karma Train
Really hoping this loss is the equivalent to the saints losing to freo recently

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:19 pm 
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John James
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 631
My thoughts exactly!

Can someone please send this to the club!


david31 wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Chris Fagan has had four pre seasons with the Lions with great recuiting in Cameron and Neal that have changed the face of the club and Flag favs.

We need a big trading period and Teagues 2nd pre season should start bearing fruit in fact I see that it already is - just need some minor tweaks and couple of top liners

Time to throw kitchen sinks at A graders

Agree with you Walsh that Teague needs time to make his mark and to recruit mature reliable talent.

However, the Brisbane analogy leaves out one key detail: the recruitment of Luke Hodge. Along with Fagan he turned around the basket case culture they had prior. He’s a coach out on the field. He knows what’s required to win flags and he made that known to the young list they have. When momentum shifted against them in games, he could say this is how we counter it and weather the storm. He’s got premiership clout. That’s who they had developing their young talent.

What do we have? Simmo and Murph are fantastic servants of the club. Some of the guys we played next to them in their prime was downright negligent. Regardless, what do they know about playing in a premiership calibre side? What do they know about how you train, prepare and play to be a consistent contending side? Again, I reiterate, fantastic servants of the club but they haven’t won anything so they can’t possibly know what it takes to succeed. Cripps and Doc tried their arses off as captains yesterday but how many finals have they played between them? These are the guys in charge of developing our youngsters - the guys we’ve invested so many high picks into.

We’re mired in this rut of the losing mentality that has plagued this club for 20 years. We need to find some genuine leadership as a player or coach. Saints got Roughead as a dev coach last year. We need to do something like this. Find a way to get a Selwood when he retires. Someone who knows what it takes and can break the loser mentality that has plagued this club and continues to do so.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:42 pm 
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Ken Hands
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Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:19 am
Posts: 469
Location: Melbourne
Did I miss something?
I thought TC was the Club :smoking:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:05 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8215
AGRO wrote:
No team fears us no team respects us, if they did then 5 goals up in the first quarter would translate into a ten goal plus win.


Yep. :clap: We need to earn respect and fear and you do that by putting nails in coffins when they are presented!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:24 pm 
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John James
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Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:41 pm
Posts: 631
Missing easy set shots for goal doesn’t help


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:31 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:54 pm
Posts: 321
100% spot on David31 re Hodge , and now they have replaced him with Birchill . More grand final winning experience.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:33 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:13 pm
Posts: 568
bluehammer wrote:
Brently8 wrote:
bluehammer wrote:
I can't believe that David Teague was out coached by Alistair Clarkson.

Shocked to be sitting here.



Out coached by 10 goals in about 3 shortened quarters of footy. We got got to pieces.
Totally agree, it was unacceptable.

But I don't think a 10 game ish coach getting out done by arguably the greatest coach of the last 30 years is headline news.

Teague appears, from the cheap seats, to back his players in almost to a fault. Don't change things, let them work their way through it. Hasn't served us well when teams have got on top of us.

Need to find different styles for different times. I would like to think Bolton's endless negativity would have helped us have that style when needed... but we were shit at it.


So true! Agree with all of that.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:40 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:32 am
Posts: 8215
Waterman wrote:
100% spot on David31 re Hodge , and now they have replaced him with Birchill . More grand final winning experience.


I was under the impression we already went down this road with Judd. Didn’t he bring that grand final winning experience, mentality, culture, training, etc. and passed it on to the previous high draft picks.......sounds like either more excuses or history repeating.
Either way, doesn’t sound or look good.


Last edited by SurreyBlue on Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:09 pm 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5099
Location: Melbourne
MIL wrote:
AGRO wrote:
Rexy wrote:
MIL wrote:
frank dardew wrote:
Agree Cranium embarrassing and continue to lose to Hawthorn when we have opportunity to win

Most disappointed I have been all year
Horrendous game only Weitering was ok
Mentally fragile and everyone knew when Hawthorn kicked the last 2 goals of the first quarter we were going to have a holiday
Second quarter was worst quarter this year
How can you beat Geelong and Essendon****** and be 5 goals up on Hawthorn and lose

Diabolical and let everyone down


They need to front the media and explain themselves for the last 3 quarters.


Maybe they just subconsciously checked out for the bye at qtr time ...?



Hawthorn consciously checked in at 1/4 time and knew we’d fold like a pack of cards, if they applied the torch, we obliged.


And this is our problem. But how do we change this feeble mentality ? We can't sack half the list. The 'play to your strength' approach of Teague has failed in the main. So where to now ? It has to be get a great coach like Clarko ?


Well it hasn’t, we went 4-39 under bolts and now 10-10 under Teague.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:30 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 719
Thought of another Pro:
Moore was better this week.

The only reason I can see them playing Moore instead of TDK is to see what he offers before list management at the end of the year.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am 
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Adrian Gallagher

Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:48 pm
Posts: 66
BigGartos wrote:
Thought of another Pro:
Moore was better this week.


I would actually agree with that. I mean, double nothing is nothing but the second nothing showed ... something.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:00 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12823
Location: Bondi Beach
carntheblues wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
BigGartos wrote:
kezza wrote:
Bloody disgraceful.
From late in the first quarter when the Hawks started to apply pressure we crumbled.
Our midfield was absolutely smashed, Cripps the only one who can hold his head up.
Honestly some players were barely sighted.
Getting pretty sick of this.

Unfortunately Cripps response to the mediocrity around him was to try to do too much himself, rather than trusting others, and he made things much worse when we were still in touch.


You have a nice way accounting for Crippa howlers. He makes his own bed and should own the multitude of mistakes he makes by hand and foot. He makes decisions on his own and misses better options.

He should stick to what he is known for: contested disposals. We got smashed on the inside after quarter time.

I remember the one criticism Judd copped later in his career: kicking for goal. Crippa doesn't come near Judd imo.

Whilst Cripps can accumulate disposals he needs a lot of work to improve on the skill of kicking and handball.
in.

Crippa's year has been average thus far imo. A great effort quarter here and there is not enough for a captain.

His job is to bring in players not trying to be Messi. Everyone has a role.


Yet we won the stoppage clearances easily! Did we?

I think there are a lot of factors - including many listed on this site as to why we lost. Its never just one thing. I think we were out coached but I do not think that is because Teague is not the right coach and he has no plan B. Sometimes limitations in players both physical and mental reduce options. I am sure Levi is playing hindered at the moment - best guess is his knee which is restricting his ability to roam around the ground hence why he is playing deep forward. This means Harry has to play up the ground more and reduces our ability to be unpredictable. I think some selections are clearly not working as well as expected which then puts added pressure on the rest of the players. One link not performing their role (and by that I mean winning their role) breaks down the whole game plan and clearly the on field leaders could not get everyone to adjust as we would expect. Then players try to do more than they should (ie Cripps) which only adds to the disorganisation within the team. You can't blame Cunningham for no impact if his role is a quick leading target from the pocket but the ball never gets up there or when it does it is delivered poorly. The big question is will changes impact the sides confidence more than running with the same team that may be scarred by that poor performance; or will a want to redeem themselves prevail.


I agree there's alot of reasons for the loss, not just one.

We smashed them in contested possessions the first quarter. I think we were up 11. Lost in the end by 20. We got smashed in the 3 quarters after the first.
Some of our contested possessions in the last 3 quarters were not worth counting as they were dinky little handballs to no one and sharked by Hawks.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:50 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 3262
SurreyBlue wrote:
Waterman wrote:
100% spot on David31 re Hodge , and now they have replaced him with Birchill . More grand final winning experience.


I was under the impression we already went down this road with Judd. Didn’t he bring that grand final winning experience, mentality, culture, training, etc. and passed it on to the previous high draft picks.......sounds like either more excuses or history repeating.
Either way, doesn’t sound or look good.


We gave up Kennedy to get Judd.They gave up zilch to get Hodge............reckon things would have turned out differently if we had retained Kennedy.

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