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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:31 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12079
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Sombrero wrote:
robertbb wrote:
bondi tell us more about this romantic pubicity..... do you have a link? :)

I'm obviously not Bondi but are your eyes and ears painted on?
For weeks we have been getting this all over the net and the print press.
Betts romantic connection to Carlton and Teague.
Jacobs has a medical.
Martin likely to choose us.
Papley
Links to the past, future destination club.

Lots of positive stuff that the sponsors WANT and love because every time the club is mentioned, there is an association with the sponsor. Every time there is a photo of someone in a Carton polo there is a Hyundai logo on display. Every time there is an interview there are sponsors' logos in the background as well. Gibbons gets VFL life membership is already all over the joint. Gibbons in Carlton Hyundai polo. They could equally have put him in his VFL jumper. It's also why I wanted to recruit Majak years ago. Before he ever played a game Mazda was laughing all the way to the bank.

We've been the brunt of bad publicity and derision for too long. This is EXACTLY what the club needs to attract players and sponsors. With it comes more favourable press from those who hate us. They have no choice but to come on board or be left on the sidelines. They are already changing from us to Adelaide bashing.


Exactly.

Kids love Bettsy and his amazing goals.
They don't look at his age.
Carlton has lost a generation of kids support.
Now they're hearing Bettes may be returning home.
Association of Betts being amazing with Carlton = Carlton is ...

Robetbb knows what the romaticism is and the positive effect it will have on the club.
He's stirring the pot. I know he loves Carlton, and has connections in the club.
Robertbb cares, so I value any criticism he may bring from the return of Betts.
Only adds to a balanced argument. Probably the same one going on behind closed doors.

We haven't got him and we aren't prepared to pay a big price for Betts.
So if he comes and it costs us little, the gain is enormous for the club, on field and off field.

Its very obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:32 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Indeed.
As for robbie boy
He was playing on a misspelt word being very naughty methinks.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:42 am 
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Geoff Southby
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bluegirl72 wrote:
Indeed.
As for robbie boy
He was playing on a misspelt word being very naughty methinks.


Yeah girlie very naughty indeed. These things are OK, but only for a few select forumites.

Anyway if you have to explain it the time has passed.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


I reckon it depends on what we have to give up for them Rexy. How far we have to mortage future drafts. It seems to me all these trade-in players are brilliant wins for us until they get to the club. Then the reassessment begins.

Sure, it would be nice if we could have some more deals like Docherty and Jones, but I do hope we don't turn our back on draft - that's where the backbone of premiership teams seems to come from.


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Bob Chitty
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He's a genius if he recruits 5 small forwards and 2 ruckmen in the same trade period?


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:56 am
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Location: Progreso, Yucatan, MEXICO
BigKev wrote:
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


I reckon it depends on what we have to give up for them Rexy. How far we have to mortage future drafts. It seems to me all these trade-in players are brilliant wins for us until they get to the club. Then the reassessment begins.

Sure, it would be nice if we could have some more deals like Docherty and Jones, but I do hope we don't turn our back on draft - that's where the backbone of premiership teams seems to come from.

Hawks did it basically on the back of one or two drafts and the rest trading.
We've been to the draft. Now we can and should cherry pick.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:33 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12079
Location: Bondi Beach
BigKev wrote:
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


I reckon it depends on what we have to give up for them Rexy. How far we have to mortage future drafts. It seems to me all these trade-in players are brilliant wins for us until they get to the club. Then the reassessment begins.

Sure, it would be nice if we could have some more deals like Docherty and Jones, but I do hope we don't turn our back on draft - that's where the backbone of premiership teams seems to come from.



Backbone, spine call it what you like frank, but we've already done that with the 23 of the 34 on our list.


Weitering
Macreadie
Cripps/ Ed/Murphy/Walsh
DeKoning/ Kreuzer/ Casboult
Curnow
McKay

and incase they don't work out, we can't rely just on the draft (no other team does) we bring in

Docherty
Jones
Plowman
Marchbank
Setterfield
McGovern
Newman



and we brought all the above with picks we would not have done better with in the draft.

Its a balancing game.

We are in the right time frame to pick the best available.
2019 is not a superdraft.
2019 is the year (as was 2018) to fill in any holes with specific targets like Martin, Papley and a surprise with 2020 first round pick.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:57 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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Posts: 14211
Location: Comparing orange boners with Hirdy
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad

Was that article based on Ben Waterworth interviewing Ralphy?

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:42 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:52 pm
Posts: 1972
Location: Geelong
bondiblue wrote:
BigKev wrote:
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


I reckon it depends on what we have to give up for them Rexy. How far we have to mortage future drafts. It seems to me all these trade-in players are brilliant wins for us until they get to the club. Then the reassessment begins.

Sure, it would be nice if we could have some more deals like Docherty and Jones, but I do hope we don't turn our back on draft - that's where the backbone of premiership teams seems to come from.



Backbone, spine call it what you like frank, but we've already done that with the 23 of the 34 on our list.


Weitering
Macreadie
Cripps/ Ed/Murphy/Walsh
DeKoning/ Kreuzer/ Casboult
Curnow
McKay

and incase they don't work out, we can't rely just on the draft (no other team does) we bring in

Docherty
Jones
Plowman
Marchbank
Setterfield
McGovern
Newman



and we brought all the above with picks we would not have done better with in the draft.

Its a balancing game.

We are in the right time frame to pick the best available.
2019 is not a superdraft.
2019 is the year (as was 2018) to fill in any holes with specific targets like Martin, Papley and a surprise with 2020 first round pick.


I don't think it matters at all whether the players currently on the list came from the draft or were trades. I think that as far as the current list is concerned the age demographic may be a consideration and also any deficiencies in a particular type of player. Apart from that I'd only favour trading if we're confident that we're getting a good deal, ("unders" if you like).

* and who's frank? :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:50 pm 
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Robert Walls
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:41 pm
Posts: 3657
Rod Spooky Galt wrote:
He's a genius if he recruits 5 small forwards and 2 ruckmen in the same trade period?
Megaman wrote:
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad

Was that article based on Ben Waterworth interviewing Ralphy?
Correct and correct....

Glad its not just me....
Speculation and insurance... I would only want Martin and Papley.... The rest start filling spots and costing.... and are only short term insurance

Go Blues

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:35 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12079
Location: Bondi Beach
BigKev wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
BigKev wrote:
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


I reckon it depends on what we have to give up for them Rexy. How far we have to mortage future drafts. It seems to me all these trade-in players are brilliant wins for us until they get to the club. Then the reassessment begins.

Sure, it would be nice if we could have some more deals like Docherty and Jones, but I do hope we don't turn our back on draft - that's where the backbone of premiership teams seems to come from.



Backbone, spine call it what you like frank, but we've already done that with the 23 of the 34 on our list.


Weitering
Macreadie
Cripps/ Ed/Murphy/Walsh
DeKoning/ Kreuzer/ Casboult
Curnow
McKay

and incase they don't work out, we can't rely just on the draft (no other team does) we bring in

Docherty
Jones
Plowman
Marchbank
Setterfield
McGovern
Newman



and we brought all the above with picks we would not have done better with in the draft.

Its a balancing game.

We are in the right time frame to pick the best available.
2019 is not a superdraft.
2019 is the year (as was 2018) to fill in any holes with specific targets like Martin, Papley and a surprise with 2020 first round pick.


I don't think it matters at all whether the players currently on the list came from the draft or were trades. I think that as far as the current list is concerned the age demographic may be a consideration and also any deficiencies in a particular type of player. Apart from that I'd only favour trading if we're confident that we're getting a good deal, ("unders" if you like).

* and who's frank? :wink:


Sorry about the frank dardrew reference BK. I was thinking of him.....good thoughts.

Speculate to accumulate. Fair enough.

I don't care about the words "under" or "overs" or "buyer's beware", I am after "solutions"...filling holes in order to climb.

I'd rather pay overs and have a hole plugged than play and with leaks.

My dad invested in property that was quicker to pay off, and he said he paid "unders".
He said I was mad when I bought prime real estate, and paid what he and others called "overs" at the time.
20 years later and my rental returns dwarf his, let alone the comparable capital growth.
I've won Flags investing in what I knew what I was getting, and he's made the Prelim speculating.

We both survived, and life continues...unders, overs, whatever makes you comfortable.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:08 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12079
Location: Bondi Beach
I thought I'd copy and paste this post from the Jacobs thread in Talking Recruitment.

I think we've had a huge weakness in the ruck depending on Kreuzer as the No 1 ruck.
He's vulnerable to injury and is not a tap ruckman and doesn't give our mids much opportunity.
Kreuzer will not play every game in 2020, and may even breakdown.

Lobbe is delisted.
Philips and Casboult are offered 1 year contracts and are looking at other better paid options for longer.
TDK is only 20yo and still has another 2-3 years of development before he can go 4 quarters against the leading 25yo-30yo ruckmen of the comp.

We were looking at 24yo Swans ruck Darcy Cameron who is much stronger at the contest than Philips and Jacobs an ex AA ruckman.

We have cooled off both candidates and looks like Darcy to Pies and Jacobs to the GWS, and left in a very vulnerable in aa most important position, the ruck.
The role has gained significance and imortance since the introduction of the 666 rule.

Quote:
I really wanted to get Jacobs because this was our 2nd chance to take on the best ruck available.

When we had Kreuzer, Warnock, Hampson and Jacobs was 4th banana, Jacobs was pushed out to Crows for a 3rd round pick.
Jacobs became All Australian ruckman and proved to be the best ruck of the 4.
Warnock, Hampson were duds and Kreuzer did a knee.

Turn the clock forward to 2020 and we have an opportunity to player either Jacobs or the injury prone Kreuzer as No 1 ruck.

We will regret making the same mistake twice.
Jacobs is the tap ruckman our midfield group would benefit from over the next 2 years, whilct TDK develops in the VFL for next 2 years.

Gawn and Jacobs didn't click as No 1 rucks till they were 24yo onwards.
TDK turns 21yo in 2020.

Drafting 18yo developing ruck in the draft this year will take 5 years plus to get him up to scratch if he comes good.
Where is the 18yo going to learn his craft? VFL? WE don't have a thirds/ development squad anymore.
What about the other developing ruck TDK? Where does he learn his craft?

What if Philips Casboult and TDK are all playing in the VFL? Where does TDK play? The developing ruck?

Missed an obvious need with Jacobs as the No 1 ruck for 2020-21 for mine.


I just hope we can retain Levi for a couple of years as a stop gap.

I will spew on SOS (and others) if Harry and TDK are our only options to ruck at some stage in 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:21 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 pm
Posts: 2599
bondiblue wrote:
I thought I'd copy and paste this post from the Jacobs thread in Talking Recruitment.

I think we've had a huge weakness in the ruck depending on Kreuzer as the No 1 ruck.
He's vulnerable to injury and is not a tap ruckman and doesn't give our mids much opportunity.
Kreuzer will not play every game in 2020, and may even breakdown.

Lobbe is delisted.
Philips and Casboult are offered 1 year contracts and are looking at other better paid options for longer.
TDK is only 20yo and still has another 2-3 years of development before he can go 4 quarters against the leading 25yo-30yo ruckmen of the comp.

We were looking at 24yo Swans ruck Darcy Cameron who is much stronger at the contest than Philips and Jacobs an ex AA ruckman.

We have cooled off both candidates and looks like Darcy to Pies and Jacobs to the GWS, and left in a very vulnerable in aa most important position, the ruck.
The role has gained significance and imortance since the introduction of the 666 rule.

Quote:
I really wanted to get Jacobs because this was our 2nd chance to take on the best ruck available.

When we had Kreuzer, Warnock, Hampson and Jacobs was 4th banana, Jacobs was pushed out to Crows for a 3rd round pick.
Jacobs became All Australian ruckman and proved to be the best ruck of the 4.
Warnock, Hampson were duds and Kreuzer did a knee.

Turn the clock forward to 2020 and we have an opportunity to player either Jacobs or the injury prone Kreuzer as No 1 ruck.

We will regret making the same mistake twice.
Jacobs is the tap ruckman our midfield group would benefit from over the next 2 years, whilct TDK develops in the VFL for next 2 years.

Gawn and Jacobs didn't click as No 1 rucks till they were 24yo onwards.
TDK turns 21yo in 2020.

Drafting 18yo developing ruck in the draft this year will take 5 years plus to get him up to scratch if he comes good.
Where is the 18yo going to learn his craft? VFL? WE don't have a thirds/ development squad anymore.
What about the other developing ruck TDK? Where does he learn his craft?

What if Philips Casboult and TDK are all playing in the VFL? Where does TDK play? The developing ruck?

Missed an obvious need with Jacobs as the No 1 ruck for 2020-21 for mine.



I just hope we can retain Levi for a couple of years as a stop gap.

I will spew on SOS (and others) if Harry and TDK are our only options to ruck at some stage in 2020.




Surely the state leagues have a promising 23-27 year old ruck who we can rookie
Not sure why we didn't make a play for Witts when he was available...or maybe we did and SOS didn't text to tell me

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:12 am 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12079
Location: Bondi Beach
I'm hoping the reason we cooled on Cameron and Jacobs is because SOS and his team have identified a few gems in the state leagues we can get with latter picks.

Fingers crossed.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:17 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 22563
bondiblue wrote:
BigKev wrote:
Rexy wrote:
If Stephen Silvagni lands these six big trade targets for Carlton, he’s officially a genius

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlto ... e4f80c63ad


I reckon it depends on what we have to give up for them Rexy. How far we have to mortage future drafts. It seems to me all these trade-in players are brilliant wins for us until they get to the club. Then the reassessment begins.

Sure, it would be nice if we could have some more deals like Docherty and Jones, but I do hope we don't turn our back on draft - that's where the backbone of premiership teams seems to come from.



Backbone, spine call it what you like frank, but we've already done that with the 23 of the 34 on our list.


Weitering
Macreadie
Cripps/ Ed/Murphy/Walsh
DeKoning/ Kreuzer/ Casboult
Curnow
McKay

and incase they don't work out, we can't rely just on the draft (no other team does) we bring in

Docherty
Jones
Plowman
Marchbank
Setterfield
McGovern
Newman



and we brought all the above with picks we would not have done better with in the draft.

Its a balancing game.

We are in the right time frame to pick the best available.
2019 is not a superdraft.
2019 is the year (as was 2018) to fill in any holes with specific targets like Martin, Papley and a surprise with 2020 first round pick.

:thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:39 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:31 pm
Posts: 9
is Marchbank being shopped around??


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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 22563
Do you know something cluesy?
Cos if you do
Spill!

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Ken Hunter

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 12079
Location: Bondi Beach
blues_clues wrote:
is Marchbank being shopped around??


Last week's news.

In discussion about the Papley deal between Carlton and Swans.

Swans asked the question if Marchbank could be prized out of Carlton.
Emphatic "no".

Have to ask the question.
Every list manager asks questions at the list managers-player managers gathering: starts at the top of most wanted and they work their way down from there.

Marchbank seems to be an untouchable.

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 Post subject: Re: List Management 2020
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:19 pm 
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John James

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:49 pm
Posts: 654
Regarding ruckmen I reckon Ivan Soldo could be worth sounding out. A fringe player at the Tiges at the moment, so could be interested in a move. He's over 200cm and seems to have a bit of a nasty streak, and at 23yo should be about to hit his peak. I wonder how long he's signed up for.

I was horrified when Sauce left, and certainly wasn't surprised when he turned into an elite ruckmen but, I feel his best is now behind him. We need a ruckman in his prime, not yet another who is just about over the hill.


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