So the previous coach took a middle of the road list to 5th but he couldnt get the best out of them.
Great logic.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

That's the kind of ambition that we need at Carlton! 1 season out of 5 we finished within 2.5 games of the top 4. Yep a veritable golden age! Never mind that were 5 decent teams that season and the rest were rebuilding or falling apart.

We averaged 11.9 wins per season 2008-2012, our average finishing position over the 5 years? 8.2 - is that middle-of-the-road enough for ya? Those are the only objective facts.

Last year's premier was a middle of the road list that put it all together and beat a team of champions for the flag. They have raised themselves far above the football world's consensus of them. They did the same in 2005 when they were tipped by some for the wooden spoon.

That's what I mean by "middle of the road". With average coaching and team culture an outstanding list has a chance of winning a flag, and with outstanding coaching and team culture, a middle of the road team has a chance of winning a flag.

We had a middle of the road list and an average coach and team culture - hence 5 years on the edge of the 8. If you like, you could say we had a slightly-better-than-middle-of-the-road list and a below average coach and culture.

I have seen no evidence that we have an outstanding list.

Coach or the list?

Chicken or the egg?

An outstanding coach with an outstanding game plan where players are drilled to within an inch of their lives in responding automatically to scenarios A, B and C can lift ordinary players to being able to compete with anyone.

Does Mick have the game plan and how long will it take our players to become acclimatised to respond at a reflex level.

I have faith that he has stuff up his sleeve. Not just a rehash of the Collingwood "kick it long around the boundary, reset for the stoppage, do it again, and set a hard forward press to trap it in your forward 50"

Our list has deficiencies, most notably the absence of a class tall marking forward (except Jarryd Waite), the lack of marking prowess from ALL our ruck stocks, and the absence of serious hardness at the stoppages. Realistically it is nowhere near a premiership list with too many ordinary footballers and a number of gaps. I type this as I gaze at the photo of the 1995 premiership team above my desk, with nary a single weakness - maybe Matt Clape and Adrian Whitehead.

I have confidence that great coaching might enable this good but deficient list to overachieve, provided we have good luck with injuries and the players are disciplined enough to acclimatise to the new game plan quickly.

Mick will be slowly introducing the game plan. He will need to drill the basics into the players first. I think will fustrate us the fans initially but we need to be patient. For now there is game plan a; win lose or draw this is the only thing we play until we master it, then we can add some variation.

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'‘He had an enormous capacity to pump himself up and get the best out of himself when it mattered. He had a fire in his belly – a passion for the contest like few other players’' -- D Parkin in reference to the dominator

Starting to sound like Pagan MKII .......

@#$%&! seriously.

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dane's trolling again

Sack him now before he @#$%&! pisses down our backs

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I've said it before. Sakc Mikc, bring bakc Ratts.

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"Get ready, Teddy - you're on": Ron Barassi half time 1970 Grand Final

Malthouse has already taken an average list too back to back grand final appearances, Blue Vain is cracking champagne bottles because Rats got us to 5th.
I think this year will be a bit of a roller coaster ride until the new gameplan has sunk in.

Would love a Matt Clape right now agree re Whitehead though. Just seem to have a few too many of the ordinary (but not hopeless) types like White, Robbinson, Hampson, Ellard , Curnow etc. Hopefully Bell keeps developing and we can get a few games into Menzel and Buckley this season.

Yeah, I'm not criticising that decision. Ratts was an acceptable choice at the time (to me) because he's a Carlton guy. I can't say I was ever 100% sold on his abilities, but I wanted to believe so that got me by.

I probably preferred Voss to be honest, which was weird because he had absolutely no experience. And in some respects he may have been a good fit for us because we were coming from a lower base than when he started his Crazy Vossy recruiting at Brisbane. That's to say, Voss would have started at Carlton taking a youth approach because that's what our list was back then, and to be fair, he looks to be doing alright at the Lions since accepting he needed to rebuild with kids and not aging hacks. Although we probably need the benefit of hindsight at the end of 2013 to see how well he's really going.

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Agreed. And it is hard to finish top 4 in those circumstances.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

I don't fear the possibility of a poor start. So long as it doesn't drag on. If we're 0-4 (for example) we still have time to get back into the finals without too much bother I think, assuming all else is going well.

Perhaps a benefit of a bad start, should it eventuate, is that it would lessen the meedyah's expectations of us and therefore they will concentrate on pumping another club's tyres up, like Richmond maybe.

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You're struggling with your basic comprehension again.

I'm not celebrating Ratts getting us to 5th because I believe we have a potential top 4 list. Ratts had his flaws and while I think the board made a knee jerk decision, I'm content that they moved him on.
My concern is the same people who bagged Ratts for not taking the next step and getting us into the top 4 are now saying we have an average list.
Which is it?
Do we have an average list? If so, its a bit rich to be bagging Ratten for failing. Or we have a quality list and we should be aiming for top 4. You can't have both.
IMO, its the latter but plenty of people are suddenly making excuses.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Take a look at the Swans 2012 premiership side - they had a number of "ordinary" footballers eg) Alex Johnson, Mattner, Nick Smith, Bird, Malceski, Pyke & Parker.
IMO there is no "standout" side in 2013 - especially with the some of the Hawks getting on a bit eg) Mitchell, Sewell & Burgoyne. Suckling injury will hurt them as well.
Collingwood lacks leg speed and x-factor.
West Coast will need Cox, Glass and Kerr to maintain their 2012 form.

As RickJ points out - with great coaching and luck with injuries we can overachieve and go deep in Sept.

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There is no footy god

Maybe both the list and the coach were average? The latter shaped the former.

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It's never as good as it looks and it's never as bad as it seems.

Probably a good reason why the phrase "no limits'' has been used a lot.

So an average coach took an average list to within a goal of a preliminary final 18 months ago?
It doesn't add up to me.
If the list is capable of beating another finalist by 100+ points and getting within a kick of a prelim with an average coach, the highest paid coach in the AFL should be able to exceed that easily.
As I said, we should be aiming for top 4.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Hey guys... A question about Mick not footy related

In the no limits part 2 he is driving along and explaining his music he plays

There is a piece where he states he likes sax and there is a piece playing.

I think it might be a Larry Carlton piece and it has been driving me crazy what it is

Any of you muso heads got any idea?

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Go BLues