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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:27 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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harker wrote:
Stamos wrote:
thehulk wrote:
You weren't thrilled about hearing the truth ?


Seems a pretty harsh call on Watson.
On Lucas, not so much.


Maybe Walls should have mentioned Sheppard, Butcher, Moore, Melksham and Gysberts also, as all were selected before Lucas in the same draft, but no.
Very selective and small minded by Walls. Thought he was better than that.

Lucas has not fared well for 1. injury and 2. not being on the same page as the coach.
Could well sulk himself out of the club but he's a much better player than he has shown us to date except for his first year.


The subject was Carlton. :? Yes, all clubs have their failures but the good clubs make up for it. I'm yet to see enough success stories to make up for the failures.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:41 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Pafloyul wrote:
The subject was Carlton. :? Yes, all clubs have their failures but the good clubs make up for it. I'm yet to see enough success stories to make up for the failures.


Walls comes off better as a media commentator than someone who really knows the workings of his former club.
He has lost contact and really has little to add at this stage.

Not sure he'd even know the state of our squad at the moment, so it may just be nice not to say nothing at all and it may well be why he didn't follow through by being involved in The Hangout.
May have been wiped by some of the kids on it. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:47 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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harker wrote:
Pafloyul wrote:
The subject was Carlton. :? Yes, all clubs have their failures but the good clubs make up for it. I'm yet to see enough success stories to make up for the failures.


Walls comes off better as a media commentator than someone who really knows the workings of his former club.
He has lost contact and really has little to add at this stage.

Not sure he'd even know the state of our squad at the moment, so it may just be nice not to say nothing at all and it may well be why he didn't follow through by being involved in The Hangout.
May have been wiped by some of the kids on it. :)


Parkin is as bad if not worse than Walls when it comes to knowing the state of our list/who is injured etc....just listen to the Fox Footy shows and you'll see.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:51 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Effes wrote:
[

Parkin is as bad if not worse than Walls when it comes to knowing the state of our list/who is injured etc....just listen to the Fox Footy shows and you'll see.


I know but his oration is seductive which fools some, for the content.
Think Walls is running the same bluff, but he just doesn't come across as convincing.

I do like Walls, but just don't think he did himself any favours yesterday.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:57 am 
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Rod Ashman

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Synbad wrote:
But Watson???..........................................................

BUST!!!


..........ed Finger. Yes I know. Shame.

May well be the case and sadly I think it still will be, but what's that got to do with Walls?
Throw enough darts and you'll eventually hit..............something.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Cant possibly -players have voted with their feet literally - they had their chance last week and they and he blew it - cant look back now and new incumbent isnt likely to want him

lets face it we didnt handle mitchell/pagan spate well by trying to appease both - cant let him stay on untenable


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Why would we need to keep him on ????

Surely if he is considering keeping someone will pick him up....

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Quote:
Some of you are questioning Pagan`s formula and the man himself? Thats incredible look at his record.
If you look at Pagan`s training you`ll find Pagan is dirty on anyone that breaks the long kicking plan. He doesn`t want any of the kids looking for shorter, yet better % options.
Is Pagan a fool to not allow them to choose a different option when they see it? No. The reason why he isn`t breaking the current predictability is because he is conditioning them to learn,think,breath,shit his style of gameplan. Till it`s second nature they will do it say in day out, If he gave them the freedom to handball short, go sideways, they will get confused. The line between his game plan and the old one will become grey. We dont have the smart skilled players to chop and change yet, and Pagan is grooming them for a brand of footy we will play for the next decade.Once these players know it inside out, and it`s first nature to them. And we bring in more skilled players into the midfield, who wont miss their targets when changing direction or going short when we have to(More highly skilled players and more unpredictable players) The side wont be as predictable but it will be well regimented.
Pagan is trying to keep it simple for them so they don`t have to think about short or sideways and get confused. Slowly when they know what they have to do more options will be introduced.
This isnt to win one or two games this year..its so they end up being a professional , well oiled army of footballers for a decade.
Sure Pagan would have prefered to be in the 8 right now. But we had 5 players in the side on the weekend who played their first game this season.Players who Pagan is grooming for years not games.
Next step is to get some mass on their light frames, as well as see who wants to play and who doesnt.
I said it last week, Carlton will be looking at an uncontracted player at the end of the season.We will take our next big step forward next season.
Keep the faith...

actually it reminds me of Pete Sampras spending a year at around 17 to change from a dbl backhanded player/ baseline player to a serve and volleyer basing his game on Rod Laver. Being a promising junior, people thought he was nuts. He lost a season as he struggled to learn the serve volley game.12 or 13 grand slams later he is and always will be the greatest. If he had listened to his doubting thomas`s who knows? maybe hed be like Jim Courrier and Michael Chang today, good past baseliner players but wont be remembered as the sporting legend Sampras is.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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People should seek out ex North players and ask them about Pagan and Carlton.
Its very interesting how they viewed us all those years ago...
Ive actually spoken to King and Stevens about Pagan back in the day....
Both said exactly the same thing... our players cant hack Pagan because they have been fed on a diet of teat milk....

Both were bemused on what happened at Carlton... and both said they owed alot to Pagan....

He didnt fit into the club in his first attempt as a player and he didnt as a coach.

Were aot better off list wise and resorces wise now...and i would think as a younger list we have something to prove under Malthouse.

Pagan inherited a broken down and old list.....

That was more than ten years ago...

And yes Pagan has a good record as a coach away from this footy club....

I hope Ratts can get himself 2 flags and a bunch of prelims somewhere.....

But for both of them it wasnt going to happen here....

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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I didn't get to read the article Walls wrote, TBH, but any article that's negative about our recruiting gets my vote. :wink:

The thing is, it's all well and good to quibble details but the instinct to go on the defensive with Carlton fans means that there is a lot of arguing in circles so that invariably things end on a passive, unproductive note. Supporters can't changes things like that but it's good to be conclusive and perhaps the supporter base mirrors the reasoning of the board, i.e. don't think too much, too hard.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:51 am 
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Ken Hunter

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..it's not so much about our recruiting, as our development.. ..the majority of clubs are hit and miss with drafting, no more or less than us over the long haul.. ..our development however i believe is lacking.. ..and this makes our drafting look poorer than it is, in my opinion..

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:14 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Big Kahuna Boot wrote:
..it's not so much about our recruiting, as our development.. ..the majority of clubs are hit and miss with drafting, no more or less than us over the long haul.. ..our development however i believe is lacking.. ..and this makes our drafting look poorer than it is, in my opinion..


It's recruiting. At least it's development and recruiting. Trying to make players who just aren't up to it into essential players must mean that we are lacking in those that are. Drafting is not quite as woeful as it might appear on paper because players like Gibbs looked liked world beaters as juniors. However, I for one wasn't privy to the details on the Gibbs vs Selwood, Kreuzer vs Cotchin debates. It's not all about our first rounders, however, it's about our inability to find players beyond that who are not just depth players. Call it recruiting, call it list management but our inability to take a year of trading and drafting by the scruff of the neck is notable. It's possessiveness with any player that shows any form and little baby steps while the list ages.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:25 am 
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formerly cj69

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Pafloyul wrote:
I didn't get to read the article Walls wrote, TBH, but any article that's negative about our recruiting gets my vote. :wink:


People are quick to jump on recruiting and I like anyone else question some decisions but I don't believe its that bad.

I believe our list has some real talent. Get some development and individual improvement into it and we will be right up there.

My biggest criticism of Ratten has been his poor use of the kids. He is not a developer and doesnt get the "best" out of players.

IMO there is so much improvement in Gibbs, Yarran, Lucas, Robinson, Watson, Casboult, Kruezer, Bootsma, Walker, Bell, Collins, ROK, Touhy, Davies, Garlett, Henderson, Warnock its not funny.

Get these guys up and running in 2013 we could take a massive quantum leap. :smoking:

Back that with a sound game plan and structure we will be able to match it with anyone.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:46 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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not any more ... the inmates have taken over the asylum

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:14 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Nope.

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