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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Appreciate the effort Rhino but I think you might be suffering a bit from the "grass is greener elsewhere" syndrome.
A few of the blokes you have listed haven't had much of a chance through injury and I still have hopes for
some of them. Collins for example.

The really bizarre one though is Murphy. I don't know if Grigg running around getting lots of possessions for Richmond
bothers you at all, but either way that would be nothing compared to watching Murphy collect a Brownlow for someone else.
IMO this kid's the least tradable on our list.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:20 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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When developing this hypothetical, I went with the idea that when Judd moves on, Murphy is our best player. Is he good enough, or will he be good enough to lead us to a flag? I don't think so. Good player, not as great a player as some may make out (could win a Brownlow as you say).

If he can't deliver us a flag, do we have the salary cap space to have him there and recruit someone who can? I don't think so. Our best chance at it, IMO, would be to trade him for some quality picks, attend to some glaring deficiencies in the make up of our list, trade down for a lesser but still above average player in Beams, then make a serious play at a real franchise player at the end of 2013 at the end of Judd's contract, when we've got serious cash to splash.

Re: Collins. Handy player, but when you see how little depth we have in the way of our midfield and small lockdown defenders, I think he's surplus to needs, given he's out of contract, when say, Joseph isn't.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Ken Hands

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Great work Rhino, funniest thing I have read on here for awhile.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

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The Rhino wrote:
Assuming we miss the finals, assuming a review were to be held at every level, I'd have heads roll. Make 2003/4 look like a quiet trade period. If there's no stability off the field, no point having a team be thereabouts, but miss out as the culture off the field is ratshit.

Work to an aim of having a massive play at landing the big fish at the end of 2013, salary cap space, whether Judd plays on or not.

* - First cab off the rank is Warnock. Out of contract, and on significant coin. GWS please. Assuming the money on offer is better than what we are, this would elevate our compensation from third band to second. Assuming we finish 9th/GC get a priority pick, that's pick 12. I'll take it.

* - From there, ideally I'd look at seeing at the possibilities of Murphy on the market. My original thought were Melbourne's Scully compensation picks. Even if we took both off them, using the above criteria - we'd receive pick 13 and 14 for him. Unders. Not interested. Could we make it pick 4 and 14 instead? Plausibly. Problem being whether any team wants to put a bid in for Jack Viney, and push their pick up. If Melbourne offered pick 4 and 14 for Murphy, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Would Murphy take it, being contracted till 2014? With Green and probably Moloney and Davey gone at the end of the year, Melbourne would offer him more than he's on now. Carlton at the end of next season would be able to offer him even more, with Judd on reduced coin or gone. An unlikely trade, but I'd push for it.

* - Now that you've stocked up on draft picks. Look at putting in an audacious bid for Dayne Beams. Likely that he'll stay. Just as likely he'll wait till end of the year to re-sign, and I reckon will poll well in the Brownlow. Offer him something that Pies can't match. See how relationship between him and plausible new coach Richo or Brown develops. Pies want pick 4. We offer pick 12. End up compromising with Scully compo/pick 14 becoming their pick 36 also.

* - Sam Sheldon, having played a total 3 games for the year is on the verge of being delisted at Brisbane. We offer our last pick (#83) to get him back home and avoid the draft. Brisbane take it.

* - First lot of delistings are then made. Simon White, Rohan Kerr and Andrew Collins are told to clear out their locker. Zac Tuohy is promoted, the rest of the rookies bar Frazer Dale (retained for another year) are told to clear off also.

* - Jordan Russell is then informed that he should probably look for free agency options, or he's on Centrelink come Monday. With no real interest from other clubs, a quick call to Port Adelaide is made, offering to informally make a contribution toward Jordan's wages for next season. Jordan is signed by Port as a free agent. We receive a band four compensation pick (pick 46)

* - Thornton and Lucas come in requesting a trade. One out of contract, the other free agent. Club decides to want to retain them and gives them reassurances of further opportunities. Players retained, both on a two year deal.

* - Waite is called into the list manager's office. Has two years remaining on his deal. Asked to take a pay cut. Waite laughs at player manager and tells him where to stick his pay cut. List manager calls him a lot of names and makes disparaging comments about Wag Nation, and informed that Nick Holland mk II will spend most of next season at Preston. Seems a bit redundant a conversation, but I'd enjoy it.

* - Bryce Gibbs wanders in looking lost. Asked whether he's interested in going back home. Gibbs looks confused, like "Why on earth would anyone want to go back there?" confused. Then asks if he can follow Murphy to Melbourne...or Southland...or whatever else Marc is doing at the time. Melbourne advise they don't have the space to accomodate him just yet, but would consider it a year later. Hands are tied, Bryce stays. Before he leaves the office, he receives a blow dart to the back of the neck, and whilst he's unconscious, Barb gives him a traditional SA haircut....it worked for Ivan Maric......

* - Call in Scoots and Brock to discuss contracts for next season. Advise Scoots there's another year on the table if he wants it. Somehow is now being paid a ridiculous amount to be playing coach of the twos for next year. Coincidentally Brock is offered a one year extension on minimum wage. Brock whispers in to my ear things he's done to my mother in the past week that seem to be taken from Mike Tyson's stint in prison, whilst Scoots viciously assaults me from behind with the remains of an empty schooner glass...origins of which remain unknown.

* - Get off phone with Mark Neeld, seeing if he'll take Gibbs...again...gleam some advice that I should speak to the indigenous players in the team all as one, rather than individuals. Garlett, Betts, Yarran and Walks come in (Robbo isn't allowed in and sent off in search of a sturdy brick wall to run into), meeting quickly adjourned, to shut the blinds after it's noticed Sydney Blue is at the window drooling intently. Discuss possible trades. Realise that Walker and Betts have a couple more years to run, at over the market rate, and quickly send them out the room. Tell Garlett he's on the market, whilst knowing full well no-one will take him for any decent value (although Dean Laidley *did* call), and offer Yarran the chance to return home. Chance is declined. Offer further chance to listen to some Fresh Prince of Bel Air soundtrack.....both walk out. Offer SB the chance. Am derided as taking it in the ass...

* - Make an audacious bid for Scott Gumbleton. He's a better prospect than Casboult or Mitchell, even with his issues. North keep calling re Hansen too, so we might as well take the trifecta of the 06 draft....except for y'know, that bloke who's captain and won all those premierships... Essendon* quabble over who pays for the freight, and whether he'd last the trip from the airport to Visy Park. Organise a skype link up. The Russell compo pick of 46 is offered. Awkward pause is deliberate just to see Essendon* recruiting staff having to ponder trading a pick 3 from the super draft for Jordan Russell sloppy seconds. It's taken. Swap of 64 for 67 is offered for Henry Slattery to join him. Essendon* only go so far...

* - North ring again for us to take Hansen. Still not interested. Pick 36 or GTFO. Reminiscing about last year's trade period gets us sentimental and we ring Freo and ask for Dylan Roberton for pick 47. Deal. Go us.

* - Get all cocky now, and ring Geelong. Simon Hogan. He's pretty fantastic. What do you want for him. Neil Balme just starts swearing at us about staying away from Travis Boak, and then threatens more harm toward Geoff Southby's family. Balmey calms down, and then gives us Hogan for pick 64 on the proviso we don't !@#$%& around with their Boak deal. Tell Balme that we've got pick 4 and can probably trump them. Think better of it. Hogan it is.

* - Ring West Coast. Reminisce about the time we nearly included Bower in the Judd deal ahead of Kennedy. We all have a good laugh. Offer him for a 2nd rounder. Teaguey nearly dies from laughing so hard, then conferences in Fremantle for a similar reaction. Paul is called in to advise we're delisting him instead. On the way out, Bower blindly walking out the door, putting him out of WAFL action for an estimated 4-6 weeks.

* - Bring Sam Rowe in to discuss his recovery. Prepare Matthew Allan as visual humour for series of aggots jokes. Realise that despite best of efforts, is going to require more recovery time, so is given a nice little pay out, a position with the Northern Blues, a promise to re-rookie as a mature aged rookie next year with intent to promote should he make a full recovery. Spend the next few minutes all laughing about Dave Allison and karma..

* - McInnes gets brought in and given more bad news. There's nothing funny about it. TC collectively bemoans the greatest player that never played a game for us, all remembering that time he was caught on camera at a stoppage during one of the ABC broadcasts of our games in 2011...

* - Realise we need to delist one more player to take advantage of pick 36. Look over the list. Fairly happy with the outcome. Offers are made for Marcus Davies but prefer to retain him. Don't see point in paying out Joseph either. Ring Brisbane and tell them that we're not going ahead with the Sheldon deal, but will look at rookie list spot if he's still available.

In conclusion:

In:
Beams
Gumbleton
Roberton
Hogan
Tuohy (promoted)

Out:
White
Kerr
Collins
Murphy (Melbourne)
Warnock (GWS)
Russell (Port)
Bower
Rowe
McInnes
The entire rookie list not named Tuohy or Dale

Picks: 4, 11, 29, 36




Dont post much on here , as ive never played the game just a fan of the Blues
but geez Rhino youve lost me on this ?
No offence meant
You would trade Murphy ?????????
understand it hyperthetical but .........


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:47 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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See second post for my justification on that.

Who else on our list commands big value on the trade market? You'd get a good first rounder for Gibbs, Henderson and Kreuzer. A late one for Hampson or Warnock at best. Everyone else too old or not good enough. Murphy would be worth two.

If you can't answer the question "Can Murph lead us to a flag without Judd" positively, given his market value, you'd have to offload whilst the value is there.

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BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Laurie Kerr

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:38 pm
Posts: 135
All good Rhino but
Dont think there is actually to much wrong with our list in core group
yep sure key forward and inside mids need to be sorted ASAP
THE rest is about some one who can get into the groups head and make
them believe .It unfortunatley seems this is not happening.

The Players also need to take some responsibility for this as well


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 Post subject: Mid-season list review
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:00 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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Murphy? ...... Really? Can't agree with that decision Rhino. Non-negotiable in my list of keepers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:32 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Based on what though, Kenny? Individual ability, or faith that we can win a flag with him as the franchise player?

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:02 am 
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formerly King Kenny
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The Rhino wrote:
Based on what though, Kenny? Individual ability, or faith that we can win a flag with him as the franchise player?


For what Murphy brings in terms of skill, finishing in front of goal, run and carry, ball winning, contested ball etc, it's very difficult to replace these type of players, he is the complete player now.

Trading him now means we have another 5 year rebuild ahead of us, that would mean I'd look at your list even closer and make some further changes.

Keeping him means he can lead our final tilt in his prime, IMO a cohesive football department will make the world of difference, settle our forward line woes and YES I believe he can lead us to a flag, with or without Judd too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:09 am 
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Craig Bradley
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King Kenny wrote:
For what Murphy brings in terms of skill, finishing in front of goal, run and carry, ball winning, contested ball etc, it's very difficult to replace these type of players, he is the complete player now.


Agreed that they are very hard facets of a player to replace, but reckon a slight downgrade, if we were to get someone like a Boak or a Beams who whilst not on the level of Murphy, still give us a serviceable level, and offer us a chance to address other areas of our list that are lacking.

Quote:
Trading him now means we have another 5 year rebuild ahead of us, that would mean I'd look at your list even closer and make some further changes.


I'd only trade him if we got something like that offer above, and we were able to land a Boak or a Beams in his place. As I mentioned earlier, it would be with the aim of landing a big fish at the end of 2013 to challenge from there, once Judd's contract either goes down drastically or he retires. Take a fair chunk of Judd and McLean's salary, Warnock's and Murphy's out, you can bring in a Boak/Beams and then still have room for a big fish....Franklin comes out of contract next year for example..

Quote:
Keeping him means he can lead our final tilt in his prime, IMO a cohesive football department will make the world of difference, settle our forward line woes and YES I believe he can lead us to a flag, with or without Judd too.


Agreed re cohesive football department - by going down this path, we give ourselves 2 years to get our shit together off-field also.

_________________
BLUES 2010: PAV AND JUDD = FLAGS. DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF DICK PRATT.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR TALKINGCARLTON SUPERCOACH 2009 YET?


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