Judd has been quoted saying we are just a quality CHB/ KPB from a Flag.

What happens to our premiership window if we don't land a KPD in 2010?
How dos that shape our future in terms to the only thing that counts at Princes Park: FLAGS.?

With such a young list I believe there's 2 eras of windows for the Blues to compete for Flags: Judd era and post Judd era.

What does Judd mean by his comment of the need for 1 more KPD?

Does it mean:

1. we'll be right if we trade for one which we haven't?
2. we need to draft one? A 19yo draftee they will be 24 and ready for flag form around 2015 when Judd may be in his last year.
3. that one of Austin, Bower, White or Setanta need to step up in the next year or 2 till we develop then next one?
4. If we don't get one we've closed our window?

What does he mean? What do you think?

I know Juddy wants to sign his career off with at least 1 flag with the Blues.
We didn't plug the hole he referred to, so does this mean the window is closed whilst he's with the Blues?

I believe our window opens in 2011.
I believe we will be more consistent next year, because we showed a lot of promise in our finals game against Swans in Sydney.
I believe our midfield will be stronger faster and deeper with the use of the 3 amigos through there along with Gibbs being released by Laidler.

If we do happen to land Watson (CHB) with pick 18, or Darling or even Mitchell (CHF) they will not be ready to star in a KP role.
Look at Hurley. Sure he has impressed at both ends but he's not a star and no way could he even look decent against a J Brown or a Pavlich.
What I'm getting at is that if we pick a KP F or D they will not be ready to star in that role for 4-5 years and maybe, just maybe in Judd's last year in 2015 as a 31 yo.

Therefore we have to really develop a plan to develop and develop fast ...Austin (21) White (22) for that role (if it isn't going to be Waite, Setanta or Jamison) and develop a game plan to cover for them/ support them in order to ensure we have the list to win a flag pre 2015 with the list we've got.

FFS the Pies had Reid and Brown in the KPD spots and they were never outstanding after 5 years. Brown excelled against Reiwoldt in both GF's; that surprised everyone. Can our guys surprise even you? I'm not waiting for surprises, I accept the age of our group. I just have expectations that the players on our list today will do a job in the future, that can win us a flag in a team effort.

Furthermore, because we didn't snag a CHB in trade week doesn't mean we don't pursue one in next year's trade week regardless if we pick a KP with our pick 18.

I think our window is open starting 2011 as the Cats, Pies, Saints and Dogs are worked out by the opposition as the game and new rules evolve, age catches up with them, or they lose their mojo (premiership hangover).

Sure, the Dockers, Demons and maybe the Hawks and Swans are back on the way up, but I believe we have an advantage of quality over all those teams and against the Demons, we may be matched with class (maybe) but they will need time to mature just like we have. Maturity and experience don't happen over night.

So I say take the best available in the draft and lets not winge if it's not a KP; hopefully it is.
Lets believe in this list, the experience we have gained in the last 2 years and in the new coaches we have adopted.

Our premiership window starts in 2011, not 2012. Who would have picked the Pies to win this years flag before the season started?
Who would have picked the Hawks to win the 2008 season, even at the half way mark of the season?
What about the Baby Bombers in 1993?
Get my drift.

Do not under estimate the Baby Blues in 2011, because they are improving and the have been coming for a few years now.
One day soon they will be ready to compete as men against men. I reckon the time for that is 2011.

I don't think they are babies any more.
I truly believe we discarded what's not our future. Yes that includes Jacobs and Grigg; imo they are depth.
I reckon Ratts and the MC know more about the list and each and every individual a bit better now than they ever have in the past.

Give us the cup now!
Am I getting ahead of myself, or is it real we have a great YOUNG list which should explode/ arrive soon...perhaps 2011.
Why not?

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

It may be that we draft one who is ready. If so, all the better.

Let's not forget we were only a kick away from a prelim. Had we won the first final we probably would have won the semi.

After that, anything can happen.

A CHB these days needs to negate the CHF in terms of his creating space. Look at Cloke and his ability to go to places where he can get a one on one situation. I know there is a lot of pre-planned and set manoeuvring going on there bit athleticism is important and ability to read the play from the CHB perspective. Watson supposedly has the ability to read the play but apparently not the athleticism (yet). Setanta has the athleticism when fit but doesn't read the play so well. But Setanta has held Cloke before. And we may get McArthy at #18. Or Waite may be able to play CHB.

Of the other top clubs, Buddy is unstoppable on his day so IMO athleticism is more important.

The Dogs don't really have a genuine CHB and Hall is on the way out.

Geelong has Hawkins who isn't athletic so maybe a Watson can stand him.

Freo don't have a CHF. Pav is more of a midfielder-type. They beat us (and everybody else ftm) because of Sandilands.

St Kilda has Riewoldt who is probably the best player in the comp on his day and really needs to be double tagged. An athgletic CHB who can run with him and compete with him in the air and at least get the ball to ground might have to be the best we could hope for. Setanta maybe again or Mcarthy.

I now many don't rate Setanta but there is one thing that can't be denied about him. He is never beaten in the air. He isn't the best mark in the game but hew usually gets the ball to ground. That is what opponents of Riewoldt and Cloke caouldn't do last year and is why they were dominant. Have a look at Setanta's game on Cloke in 2009 round 1 (pretty sure) where Cloe was calling Setanta a useless flower after beating him for a mar. It was Clokes last possie for about an hour. And we won IIR.

So where does that leave is a propo the question?

We may be able to find our CHB from within if we restructure a bit. If not, we might be able to draft a ready-made CHB who can do a decent enough job in his early years as he develops.

By the way, if we win the centre clearances and have a functioning forward setup so we get more benefit from F50 entries, I'll be able to play CHB myself because the footy will be down the other end.

Either way, I am looking forward to next year. IMO, we need consistency in our game plan and consistency of effort than a CHB. (Far be it for me to disagree with Judd by the way) Losing games we should have won after a good start to the year is what cost us a top 4 position last year. We can't afford to do that any more as a potential top 4 side. Good sides come to play every week. That's what we have to do. If we do that, whoever we have at CHB will find it easier.

_________________
Let slip the Blues of war (with apologies to William Shakespeare) (and Sir Francis Bacon, just in case)

I think that's where I sit too on this issue of the void at CHB BS.

If we can play 4 quarters week in week out and dominate the centre clearances with Judd Gibbs Murph being fed by Warnock (who did really well on Sandilands last game), I think we can cover CHB or at least allow less pressure on our CHB whoever that might be.

I still feel Austin will make it, he has the height and athleticism, and just enedsa decent pre season, Setanta is a fall back and if we really have to, then Waite at CHB whilst Hendo and Kreuzer (and/or White) look after the KP roles. White did OK last year in defense, but more asa 3rd tall.

I've just got a good feeling about 2011. I believe the kids learned a lot about themselves and their efforts (or lack of) during our slump after sitting at 7 wins 4 losses (when we should've been 9 wins and 2 losses).

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

Think we all have a good feeling for next year.
Finally the giant will awaken and we can take our place where we belong.
Hopefully injuries will be at a minimum as the last couple of years they have cost us dearly, keep that aspect under control and we will be hard to stop going deep in the finals.

GO BLUES!

BB, there is a 'perfect' team and then there is winning a flag, which can be done with limitations.
West Coast won a Premiership without a forward line. Geelong pretty much did so as well - with its midfielders and StevieJ contributing the goalkicking spice. Collingwood won it in 1990 without anything near a premiership list - on paper.
We need a CHB who can compete with the leading teams' CHFs and help set up play out of the backline. It would be great if this player was Jackovich-standard but does not need to be so.
Collingwood won the Premiership last year with rookies holding down key backline positions. And that was against arguably the best CHF in the comp!

Bottom line: Yes, we need CHB etc... but we CAN compete for a flag from next season either by bringing in talent or developing our own a little more, perhaps with a bit of a restructure.

We must play to our strengths and mitigate our weaknesses.

I think our window begins to open next year however 2012/13 we should be one of the main contenders.

At this stage I'd only have 3 teams ahead of us for next year - Collingwood, Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn.

- Collingwood deserve to be favourites however will they have the same dream run with injuries? Will they maintain the hunger? Teams figuring out their game plan will make things tougher as well.
- The Dogs should be thereabouts however will Hall kick as many goals?
- On their day the Hawks will beat anyone but then again it wouldn't surprise me if they just scraped into the finals. Can Hodge get through the year without injuring his groin? Their defence is a weak link and needs to improve.

Teams on par with us I would have St Kilda and Freo.

- Hayes turns 31yo in January and the Saints have bugger all kids coming through so I think they will find things a little tougher in 2011.
- Freo dropped off sharply this year after Barlow got injured and then Tarrant shortly afterwards. I doubt Barlow will get back to 100% in 2011 whilst Tarrant is now gone. They have some quality kids and will be hard to topple at Subi however.

As others have pointed out we need a key defender to stand up. Remember that Bower was injured for most of the year so maybe he could suprise? White showed some good signs and will be better next year. Jamo will improve as well - don't forget this was his first full season of AFL.

_________________
There is no footy god

You mention that it takes talls 5 years to mature, which is about right, though some can be pretty good after 4 years, by which time Judd would be 31.

Bower was taken in the 2005 draft, and has now had 5 years under his belt. While he is no gorilla, he has shown he can do OK on the Franklins of the world, and I think we all concur his 2010 was hampered by injury - I cannot believe he is as bad as he was late in the year, he is better than that and we should see his best emerge in 2011 barring injury.

Same goes for Jamison.

Both Bower and Jamison have not played anywhere near 100 games yet, and both are still young for talls. You might be surprised by how both develop.

In saying that, I agree we need another tall down back as Austin is terribly injury prone, Davies is not truly tall, and White is also not that tall.

Watson remember is already a heavy lad, so in terms of physical development he will be RTG almost straight away - he won't need the 5 years to develop in terms of his body. He looms as a crucial get Thursday night.

The other thing I am thinking is if available we take Darling at 18, and he plays forward with Kruezer and Henderson, and we send Waite back to CHB to help Bower and Jamison.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

The other thing is, and an earlier posted alluded to this, the game has changed and as Collingwood showed in 2010 a defensive game plan can mask structural deficiencies. They don't have a gun gorilla, but their game plan makes it hard for teams to score.

You've covered all the major points regarding our needs and the window of opportunity.

I saw Bower in the preseason and he was brilliant in the air, on the ground and with his run...even kicking goals.
So Jamo and Bower couldn't possibly have another horror year and they are young, but I reckon they've done their apprenticeship.
Apparently Franklin is in career best fitness and sprinting his repeat efforts like never before so at this stage I have npo problem giving Bower that job. Fingers crossed his thighs are right this year.

I don't know about White and he could surprise everyone. I do think some posters over rated his 2010 performance, but as a first year play at the highest level he did really well. Is White a forward or a bckman. He has good pace on the lead and good closing speed like Jamo so he's been promoted for good reason.

Now the 5 years it takes for talls to develop is contentious. Watson at 105 kg doesn't need to put on weight, if anything I reckon he'll lose some weight and give himself a lighter frame to cart around. He sounds like a worthy prospect for a first year senior berth, but he's up against it if selected.

Whilst Aussie did have an injury interupted preseason last year, that doesn't make him injury prone. He showed heaps in 2009 imo.

I had a long discussion today with a Demons fan about modern footyand list management. The crux of modern footy as presented by Bailey during his interview process was that the game in 5 years time (2012) is run and carry and I believe we have the midfield and defense to do that.

If the midfield can lend more support to the defense in 2011, I think that will go a long way to once again improving the defensive effort as we did last year.

Colligwood's game plan took 5 years in the making and its players didn't really grasp the concept till 2010.

New coaches Richardson and Brown aluded to this fact and believe the Ratts plan is a good one and the players still have to learn it.

I think that alone sounds very promising for a young team with another year under its belt having tatsted finals for the 2nd year in a row, only to lose by a kick...........................we should've won our final in 2009 and 2010. Maybe 2011 we will progress further by 2....GF?

_________________
Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

If it is going to be a game of run and carry then we should go for Mcarthy or Tape, not Watson
Maybe that is why most pundits top 25 doesn't include Watson