Having read this board for a while now I know there are a few well learned individuals on here whose opinions I value.

Not being a massive football brain myself I struggle to see the difference between Fremantle and ourselves.

They seem to have a young list with a few gun senior players that give the side the leadership and experience it needs. Have a coach who is new to the game and were very inconsistent last year BUT for some strange reason seem to show up every week. Even in thier losses this year their fight has always been there whilst we seem to click on a and off depending on whether we are underdogs or not.

Now I am not talking about injuries and the like as I know it was a contributing factor to our loss on the weekend just our flat spots and the fact Fremantle don't seem to have them as yet whereas we seem to have them at least once very three weeks (twice in the last two weeks which is worrying).

So what's the difference? What are the perrenial underachievers in the AFL doing that we are not?

I think we have the list for a real tilt at no. 17 soon, yes injuries will play a part as they always do but I see this trend of not turning up to play as something that could derail the whole process, even with no injuries.

Discuss.

i think freo has a more experienced and mature list than we do. Pav, Haselby, Taz, Sandi, Mcphee, Hayden, Mcpharlin to name a few who would have over 100 games exp. We have about 5 players on our whole list with that.

Home ground advantage has to help them a bit as well.

I will think about this if they win a flag before us.

Well really the only difference between the two teams at the moments in terms of the results produced is the blowout loss we had to Hawthorn. Both teams were convincingly beaten by Collingwood and we have had close losses to Brisbane and Essendon*.

I think if you look at Fremantle's draw they have played 5 out of the first 9 at Subiaco and gotten to play Adelaide, Brisbane and Sydney at the right times. Conversely, we played Brisbane and Hawthorn at the wrong times.

Not to take anything away from Freo because I've been pretty impressed with the way they have gone about things this year and they have surprised a lot of people, but definitely wouldn't say they are ahead of us in terms of development.

Freo also have their experience nicely spread in the key posts which is important:

Sandilands in the ruck
Tarrant, Mcpharlin as kpp defenders
Pav as kpp forward/superstar you throw on the ball when you need to

Our only genuinely experienced kpp player is waite (who just happened to be out in the collingwood and hawthorn games). Dont mention Thornton.

..posts that say team X played team Y at the 'right' time is a load of crap.. ..you can also argue we played cats and saints at their low points..it all evens out.. ..they're better cos they've got some brilliant stars that are KPP's.. ..Sandi the best ruck, Pav the best KPP/utility, Tarrant having a great season down back.. ..then they've got some good mids and flankers, with good home ground advantage.... ..however, test their depth a bit more as the season continues and we'll see if they continue.. ..an injury to sandi or pav and they're in real strife..

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..if you can't be good, be good at it..

4500 miles

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This might sound extreme in the context of alleged sexual assault, drunken violence and a drug trafficking charge...

???
Is travelling 11 times a year helping them too??

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i AM CARLTON

That's the challenge for them, however with 11 home games they have probably a 3-4 goal advantage (finger in the air assumption often bandied about in relation to Subiaco) on 11 occasions each season. Given they need only win 13 odd games to ensure a finals berth I'd say that's an advantage. They thus need to focus on winning all of those plus just 2 or teh other 11 to make finals.

Capiche?

freo has more mature bodies in their playing group.

They have more physically mature players
pavlich, tarrant 28/29yo, 200+ games (+haselby shortly)
thornton, crowley, dodd, johnson - 25-27 yo, close to 100 games
mcpharlin, mcphee, grover, headland - 27+yos, 150+games (+sandilaands shortly)
mundy/shammer, hayden (close to 30) - 25ish+, 100+games
You could also throw in kepler bradley in there as well as a mature body

Most media pundits consider freo to be a young team on the rise but we have been consistently younger than them throughout the year - their mature bodies are also in the key posts (sandilaands, johnson, mcpharlin, pavlich, tarrant, etc wheras we have thornton+waite only). Whats more, our team has become significantly younger/less experienced as the year has progressed due to injuries/suspension

round 1
freo averages - 24 yrs 8mths, 82.2 games, 6 players with 150+ games, 3 players 10-149 games, 11 players with less than 50 games
carlton averages - 23yrs, 8 mths, 73.4 games - 3 players with 150+ games, 3 players 100-149 games, 9 players with less than 50 games

round 5
freo averages - 24 yrs 2 mths, 73.1 games, 5 players with 150+ games, 3 players 10-149 games, 12 players with less than 50 games
carlton averages - 23yrs, 5 mths, 68 games - 3 players with 150+ games, 2 players 100-149 games, 10 players with less than 50 games

round 9
freo averages - 24 yrs 3 mths, 75.6 games, 5 players with 150+ games, 3 players 10-149 games, 12 players with less than 50 games
carlton averages - 23 yrs, 4 mths, 60.4 games - 3 players with 150+ games, 2 players 10-149 games, 12 players with less than 50 games

Finally consider the following...

sandilaands is in his prime (27yrs, 5 mths, 144 games) vs kreuzer (21yrs, 52 games), jacobs (22 yrs, 1 mth, 8 games), warnock (23yrs, 4mths, 26 games), hampson (22 yrs, 2 mths, 27 games).

Our ruckmen would all have at least 3 more seasons of development in them. Not only is sandilaands at least 4 yrs older than our closest ruckman (in terms of age), he has played more games than all of our ruckman combined (144 games to 113)

Btw, on average games played between rd 1 to 9

73.4 games to 60.4 games/player might not sound like much on paper but when you translate it into the total number of games you get a better idea

We've gone from having approx 1615 games experience in the team in round 1 to 1329 games by round 9 (average games X22 players) - That's 286 games experience less which in reality is actually 462 games of experience lost from the team given the additional 176 games of experience that would have been accumulated in the 8 rounds since the start of the season

they only travel 10 times and have 12 home games

6 games at Etihad ( ess Saints Carl WBD Rich North)
12 games at Subi
1 at AAMI (crows)
1 at Aurora (hawks)
1 at Gabba ( after two home games)
1 at SCG

they usually play crap when they come to Melbourne but only have to front up there 6 times and most against weak opponents

Very favorable draw

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Thx everyone -after reading all your posts starting to feel better about my beloved Blues ... try to keep up as much as I can but when its day there its night here so watching too much footy deprives me of sleep (watch the Blues play but thats about it every week).

Get most of my news from forums so its a bit difficult at times to get all the info to make an informed decision, thus the post.

Have to say though after reading all your posts we should be trying to recruit one relatively experienced 25-28 y.o KPP at the end of this year.

I know they are rarer than hen's teeth but with the mature age rookie draft aswell we might take a couple of chances on some neverwases and turn them into a couple hasbeens?

Seems a worthwhile punt.

I'd actually look for someone younger that will grow with the core group (ie 22-25yo KPP) - someone like dowler from the hawks who is yet to establish himself but has good credentials as a junior+potential to develop.

Henderson will improve as they year progresses and again next season - as will setanta, bower, jamison, austin, kreuzer etc - most of our talls are still on the upward path in terms of development (exceptions waite/fisher).

Our need for KPP isnt as great as many people think - what is needed is actually a bit of patience

Yes thats true we all could do with a little more patience ... but after all the dark years and the phenomenal success some of us were lucky to grow up with .... patience is a commodity that is in damn short supply!

But you are right, nothing in today´s game happens overnight.

It would just be nice to be on top of Fremantle at the moment, the rest I can bare but them on top of us just makes me feel like we are underachieving

One positive thing is that we are moving forward and I am more than thrilled with the way things have gone this year from coach, to elite players to up and comers to journeymen ... its all a happenning in my opinion.

GO BLUES

Well we know what one Freo player has been doing that keeps him switched-on ... but I wouldn't want to verbal an entire club based on that. At least, not one as harmless as Freo anyway.